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Meriam's Guy

Do you want to check people out?
Posted:Mar 13, 2008 9:58 am
Last Updated:Mar 13, 2008 2:12 pm

One of the best ways to find out if things are on the up and up or if a ministry is on the up and up is to find good and reliable sites. If you have questions just google the following:

Let Us reason Ministires


Light House trails Research

Eastern Regional Watch


Crossword KJOS ministries
Rick Joyner....... Prophet ??
Posted:Mar 13, 2008 9:21 am
Last Updated:Mar 13, 2008 2:17 pm

Prophet or Heretic?

Rick Joyner heads Morningstar Ministries Many supporters of today's controversial Renewal and Revival movements consider him to be a "prophet" and/or "apostle".

Others, including theologians, apologists and cult watchers, rightly consider Joyner to by one the most unsound and dangerous teachers around. His error-filled, unorthodox teachings include (but are not limited to) Kingdom Now (or Dominion) theology, extra-biblical revelation, and the denial of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Rick Joyner is neither a true prophet nor apostle. He teaches too much error to be either. He holds out (by his many books) an appearance of taking us to higher ground when in reality he robs us of a rich doctrinal heritage as well as the Bible. His dominionism is false and utopian and he confuses the resurrection and reign of Christ with the present state of the Church, thereby misleading Christians with false hope.

Joyner's claims of revelation knowledge produce a dulling effect in regard to a desire for the Scriptures.

Joyner's books are a jumble of confusion. One has to wade through a lot of sludge to find a few nuggets of truth.

The CRN Journal says that Joyner is peddling a ''dark mysticism'' and they conclude:
''Joyner leaves us no middle way. Either we treat him as God's chosen super-prophet for the end-times, or we treat him as a man in the grip of evil deceit and seek to expose him as such''
Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner: Chasing the Delusion of Power and Dominion, The Quarterly Journal, October-December 2000, page 14-15


Joyner’s false teachings abound and multiply. It may be sloppy writing or unclear theology but it becomes even more serious as Joyner slips into teachings that would be welcome in a Kingdom Hall [Meeting place of Jehovah's Witnesses - AI].

How should we view Jesus? We should view Him as the Bible does. John 2:21-22 and Luke 24:39 make it abundantly clear that Jesus arose in His physical body. The bodily resurrection is a foundational truth in the Christian faith. Jesus, as our mediator, exists in a glorified resurrected body. He is forever the God-man.

This truth of the two natures of Christ is called the hypostatic union and has always been defended by the Church. Christ exists in two natures, human and divine (Philippians 2:6-7).

Apparently Joyner either denies this or simply does not understand it. He proposes:
“There is a tendency to continue relating to Him as ‘the MAN from Galilee.’ Jesus is not a man. He was and is Spirit. He took the form of a servant and became a man for a brief time.”72
Joyner couldn’t be clearer in his declaration: “Jesus is not a man. He was and is Spirit” (emphasis added). Joyner finds himself closely aligned with Gnosticism, one of the most threatening heresies of the early Church. More specifically, he is bordering on a form of Docetism, a view which denies Christ’s true humanity by saying that Christ only appeared to have a physical body. However, based on a multitude of Scriptures, theologian Louis Berkhof summarizes the view of historical orthodoxy:

“The incarnation constituted Him a complex person, constituted of two natures. He is the God-man. ... The one divine person, who possessed a divine nature from eternity, assumed a human nature, and now has both.”73

Surely no true prophet of God would deny the human nature of Christ or that Jesus is in a resurrected glorified body. Paul reminds us in 1 Timothy 2:5, “There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” How can Joyner say, “Jesus is not a man”? If we accept Prophet Joyner, then we have eroded the doctrinal truths that separate Christianity from the cults.

Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner by G. Richard Fisher, Personal Freedom Outreach

Examples of Joyner's false prophecies abound. For example:

In the late 1990s, Joyner jumped onto the Y2K bandwagon as he claimed that the Lord ''finally did begin to speak'' about the issue. According to Joyner, God supposedly revealed that, ''The most severe difficulties will come from the panic generated by the situation'' and '' The Lord told me to observe the problems that Y2K will cause in the natural world as a reflection of the problems we have in the body of Christ.''

Thus according to Joyner's revelation the Church must not have had problems since Y2K was a non-event.
Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner: Chasing the Delusion of Power and Dominion, The Quarterly Journal, October-December 2000, page 6

Typical of the Joyner/Jones prophecies is this December 31, 1997 this one (RealAudio). It includes the type of judgement prophecies that have become popular in today's so-called renewal and revival movements (e.g. LA is to be leveled by earthquakes AND nuclear bombs; the Mississipi will be 35 miles wide...). Check the date, and the time-schedules hinted at. (Nine months: this movement is always talking about spiritual pregnancy, things born in the spirit, etc. One of the manifestations looks and sounds like someone giving birth).

Note that at the time, Joyner was selling cabins at his East Coast ''Moravian community.'' (Morningstar Prophetic Bulletin, April, 199

Prophets? Apostles? Super-Apostles?

Like other leaders in the fore- and background of the controversial renewal/revival movements, Joyner rarely refers to himself as a prophet. However, these leaders refer to each other as apostles and prophets - and certainly do not discourage their followers from addressing them as such.

In his book "The Harvest," Joyner says:

What is about to come upon the earth is not just a revival, or another awakening; it is a veritable revolution. The vision was given in order to begin to awaken those who are destined to radically change the course, and even the very definition of Christianity. The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord's faithful servants. A great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles will be raised up with the spirit of Phineas...

Self-serving Illusion

Though Joyner's doctrinal statement is a rather standard one, we will see that in many places his writings and books contradict and undermine it.

One can only wonder if his doctrinal statement is merely window dressing and subterfuge; or if perhaps his allegiance to a movement which views itself as a superlative extension of the Church has moved him aways from a more stable and orthodox foundation.

Joyner is like a musician playing many sour notes with the good ones while telling us he is an accomplished prodigy. When we object, he will call attention to the few good notes. Joyner's trumpet is offkey and giving out an ''uncertain sound'' (1 Corinthians 14-8 . Had he lived in the Old Testament era, he would have been stoned by now (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 , 18:20-22 )

Joyner unabashedly promotes his most bizarre and unrealistic ideas this way:

''In the near future the church will not be looking back at the first century church with envy because of the great exploits of those days, but all will be saying that He certainly did save His best wine for last. The most glorious times in all of history have now come upon us. You who have dreamed of one day being able to talk with Peter, John and Paul are going to be surprised to find that they have all been waiting to talk to you! You have been chosen to see the harvest, the fruit of the seed that they were planting.''

Joyner is so bold as to state that nations will be overwhelmed by the newly appointed apostles and that ''Miracles which exceed even some of the most spectacular biblical marvels will cause whole nations to acknowledge Jesus ... The appearances of angels will be so common that they will cease to be related as significant events. The Lord himself will appear to councils of apostles and elders to give them directives.''

Joyner has two major obsessions: ''Prophetic Restoration'' and ''Apostolic Restoration.'' He explains these as follows:

''A new wave of ministries is about to be released with extraordinary prophetic gifts. Others with revelatory gifting who were sidetracked because of controversy, or other problems, are about to get back on the fast track ... The apostolic ministry that opened the church age will be raised up at the end to complete it. The Lord is restoring the apostolic authority of the church and soon this will become a major emphasis.

There will be almost a general openness to this as men of true apostolic authority, with a true apostolic lifestyle, take their place in leadership.''

Glaringly absent from Joyner's agenda is any biblical warrant for his words. There is no Scripture offered as proof for this self-serving illusion.

Ephesians is clear that the Church is built on ''the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets.'' (Ephesians 2:19 ). Why would God have to lay the foundation all over again? The Church, since the time of Paul, is described as ''God's building. '' (1 Corinthians 3:91-10 ). A building, especially God's Church, is not in need of another foundation. No wonder Joyner gives not Scripture for his grandiose imaginings.

Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner: Chasing the Delusion of Power and Dominion, The Quarterly Journal, October-December 2000, page 7

Many people involved in the renewal and revival movements have reported that they are told, by Joyner and other teachers, that we can not find everything that's currently happening in the church in Scripture precisely because God is doing a ''new thing.'' Instead, Joyner has prophesied that there will be ''super apostles.'' These apostles are said to be needed to administer the ''new thing'' God is doing. Thus Christians are encouraged to not judge, discern, or even pray about the teachings within these movements. After all, like the apostles of old, who participated in writing Scripture before, the new ''super-apostles'' won't steer you wrong... would they?

Joyner Discourages Discernment

Not surprisingly, as a false teacher, Rick Joyner not only lacks discernment himself, but also strongly discourages Christians from obeying Scripture when it talks about applying biblical principles of discernment. He tries to silence critics of his ministry and teachings and/or the movements and doctrines he supports by suggesting that critics have what he terms a ''Jezebel spirit,'' or ''religious spirit.''

Even if one takes the liberty to judge the prophet and his message, you are labeled a ''pharisee,'' or worse yet possess a ''religious'' and ''Jezebel spirit.''

PFO director Steve Cannon points out a recurrent theme is Joyner's writings, a concept called ''The Two Ministries.'' Joyner describes the second of the two ministries as ''faultfinders'' and says they are a destructive force.'' Cannon maintains, ''This doctrine ... is used, I think, to intimidate any who may criticize, into thinking that by doing so, they are operating under the spirit of Satan.''

Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner: Chasing the Delusion of Power and Dominion, The Quarterly Journal, October-December 2000, page 6

Joyner doesn't stop there in his efforts to escape accountability:

Still going further afield, Joyner warns that cult research is dangerous and ought not be be pursued. This would surely keep the discerning off his case. As much warning as there is in the Bible against false religions and heresies (e.g. ''test the spirits,'' 1 John 4:1 ),

Joyner's words are ill-advised and foolish:
''Few who devote themselves to studying cults or deviant doctrines are able to distinguis the true word of the Lord, and usually their hearts are immediately darkened by the very evil they seek to expose. We will be changed into that which we are beholding (II Corinthians 3:18 ).

There is an implied warning in the Lord's message to the church in Thyatira about 'knowing the deep things of Satan' (Revelation 2:24
Do we have the "Judas" touch mentality?
Posted:Mar 13, 2008 8:44 am
Last Updated:Mar 13, 2008 2:58 pm

I was saved in 1972. 15 years old at the time. I was incorporated into the charismatic movement within a year or so.

As I look back many people were falling headlong into this movement. Do I look back on this with fondness? Not really sure. I will mark it up as just part of the journey.

One thing the Lord has been speaking to me about lately is the take back the land, return to a place of dominion mentality that goes around.

In my day it was 2nd Chronicles 7:14

14 "if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

Well we were taught if we did this it would restore America. There are two problems with this. First off, Revelations shows that end times will not be pretty. So just perhaps we are praying for the wrong thing. Secondly this was written to the jewish Nation and their situation. It is not even written to Christianity because Christianity did not even exist until Christ died on that cross.

Ok, the Judas thing. What does that mean? Where am I going with that? Judas believed Jesus was physically going to be King of Israel. He believed it was political. So his idea was Jesus would show all of his power and overcome if he was put into a corner he could not back out of.

Problem was, Jesus knew what was to happen and why. He was obedient unto death.

How many times do we think that everything should just go our way because we believe in Jesus? How many times do we believe God has to heal us when we ask him based on Isaiah 53? Because of the statement that if you ask anything in my name...........

I have learned something. Its all about him and his will and very little about me and my will. Thats why when we pray over something it should start, Father your will be done and not mine.

He knows what is going on.He also is in control much more than we realize. But how many times do we get it in our heads if we do this... or that... he has to respond to it. He doesn't have to do anything. He is God.

His ways are not our ways. He is not bound by any promise. He is our loving Father who is for us and not against us.

It is not about conquering nations or overcoming the so called enemy. It is about our relationship with him. It is simple. It is not rocket science. It is also not this huge big functioning doctrine we have been taught.

Yet we get into these thoughts of dominion. Thoughts of a war. Jesus wont the war. The battle is the Lord's. We are called to abide in him. Let him live through us.
How can the message be right when...................
Posted:Mar 13, 2008 2:55 am
Last Updated:Mar 13, 2008 7:26 am

How can the message be right when the integrity is off and a ministry is under scrutiny for money taken in and what was done with it?

I keep getting these emails regarding petitions to stop televangelism from being scrutinized and taken off of the air. Right now it is in the form of misappropriated funds and lack of disclosures.

In real business when there are investors involved, the businesses show reports to the investors so that they can see how their money is being used.

The way that these people ask for money on TV should require them to be fiscally Representative of these funds that they take in. If they are on the up and up, then they should have nothing to hide.

But hide they do. The ones who do hide, eventually are proven to be people misappropriating funds. They do it in many ways but it usually involves paying big amounts to family members. It happens all the time. It is a shame.

Richard Roberts stepped down because of misappropriation of funds at ORU. John Haggee is in trouble and under investigation because of the same thing.

Kenneth Copeland has numerous infractions and is being sued by a private citizen he was in business with that claims he ran off with millions regarding a housing development they were building. The government is after Copeland as well.

The list goes on and on. Believe it or not, most of the money taken in is from people who are desperate and have little. They need a miracle, so they believe that God will bless them if they give. We as believers are under God's blessing in our covenant with him. He provides all of our needs in his riches and Glory in Christ Jesus.

There are very few of these people that do not live in million dollar homes. Some in multi-million dollar homes.

I can not name one millionaire of those who preached the true Gospel of Christ in the scriptures. If a person makes tons of money in the business world, then my statement is that is wonderful. But when you make millions off of needy people; supposedly sharing the Gospel of Jesus, which is our great commission to begin with, then I do have a huge problem with that.
My estranged brother
Posted:Mar 12, 2008 6:52 pm
Last Updated:Mar 13, 2008 7:27 am

My half brother Carl attended our biological fathers funeral in april of 2001. Carl is an intelligent person, but he was always into drugs and alcohol.

He had an accident and a bad blood transfusion gave him heppititis C. He now is on dialisis 3 days a week. He wandered into our uncles home the other day. First time anyone heard from him since then. My Uncle thinks he is dying.
Let some love slide Jeano Beano's way
Posted:Mar 12, 2008 4:37 pm
Last Updated:Mar 13, 2008 2:34 am

Jean has been a very good friend to me. She is going through a rough time and I hope you stop by and show her some love

[blog reallysaved2]

When did Christianity begin?
Posted:Mar 11, 2008 12:34 pm
Last Updated:Mar 12, 2008 3:57 am

When did Christianity begin?
When God Created mankind to Fellowship with him.
When Moses gave the ten Commandments
When Jesus Rose from the dead after atonement
When Jesus was born to Joseph and Mary
Always was present
0 Comments , 3 votes
2008 Christian Executive Pay: "Double-Dippers" like Franklin Graham
Posted:Mar 11, 2008 7:17 am
Last Updated:Mar 13, 2008 3:04 am

by Bernie Dehler, 2-3-08

google (freegoodnews to get the article)

I recently published the 2008 salary survey for the biggest 20 (self-described) Christian media ministries (click here to see). In this article I want to share some of my insight regarding how some "Christian executives" are "double-dipping" (or more) from their ministries.

When you look at the chart, you see that the BGEA (Billy Graham Evangelistic Association) head is Franklin Graham (Billy's ). How much money does he make?

According to CharityNavigator (click here to see), he was paid $120K. That's not bad. (I say that based on my previous 2 year studies in which I captured more nonprofit CEO data and graphed it. This data is freely available; see my Part 1 article for how to get it.)

However, Franklin is also the CEO of Samaritan's Purse, a relief organization known for their program called "Operation Christmas " where you can send a shoe-box of materials to a needy for Christmas (click here to see). According to CharityNavigator (click here to see), he was paid $345K ! That is bad... bad, bad, bad !

For a salary of $120K from one, and $345K for another, that's a whopping $465K ! And each is a part-time job, since it is impossible to have two full-time jobs. Keep in mind that most of his peers are working full-time, also. This is why I fight with ECFA to make them make their members fill-out the tax forms completely, including hours worked; click here for the story on that dispute.)

Ken Behr, the President of ECFA (Evangelicals for Financial Accountability), told me they would confront any of their members who are making over the 100% quartile, which is about $200,000. Franklin is making over twice that, considering his double-dipping.
I'll report this to ECFA immediately, to see if they will do anything about it. But from what I know so far, I would not expect ECFA to do anything at all. (Dear ECFA and Ken Behr, please prove me wrong! Do something!)

Many of my Christian Evangelical friends think Billy Graham is a role model for fiscal responsibility. How shocked they would be to see the truth-- he was paid $462K from BGEA as Chairman, click here to see. (Oh yes, Ken Behr, by the way, please check into this one also, since $462K is also a gross overpayment according to Christian executive nonprofit pay norms.)
Should Ministries books be open?
Posted:Mar 11, 2008 7:08 am
Last Updated:Mar 13, 2008 2:35 am

Ministries in America are tax exempt. Should their books be public knowledge?
Yes since they are under a tax free umbrella
No it is an invasion
0 Comments , 6 votes
Liberal dogs pull a communist act in California
Posted:Mar 11, 2008 6:31 am
Last Updated:Mar 13, 2008 7:29 am

Hmmm...they say it is NOT constitutional for a family to homeschool your own . Where in the constitution would you be able to prove that communist manufacto?

If you read Carl Marx list you would see that Public schooling is one of the tools to control people and indoctrinate them into communism.

Well done California. You liberal labodomized sheep

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