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Michael33333 55M
3479 posts
11/13/2007 8:18 pm
Your Opinion of Joel Osteen???



As I taught tonight on the topic "True Worship", it ended in a split group... some love Joel's message's and others think He's a feel good preacher that teaches a soft Gospel...

I will share my thoughts as you do by responding.

I can tell you I read his book over 2 years ago and gained a better grip in my life...

And why we are at it:
What about Rick Warren?
And Bill Hybel?

I read some disturbing commentaries last evening...

I want to know what the Big Church thinks, What do you think of the message's and the callings of these mens' ministries?

(There are no wrong responses here)


Let the shine!!!
michael


ms_littlething07 67F

11/14/2007 1:06 am

    Quoting  :

Don't be so hard on yourself my girl...you had relevant stuff to say, I enjoyed reading it!

I get Joel's daily readings emailed to me and I have gotten a lot out of it. There have been times of encouragement when I needed it, comforting words when I needed it, convicting when I needed it. Some days it isn't relevant but then other days......wow!
I have read a couple of Bill Hybels books and have gotten a lot out of them at the time. I can't remember any particular point but that doesn't mean that at some point in my life it wont come to me!
Rick Warren...Purpose Driven Life...when our church did that series...well lets just say that was a turning point in my walk with Christ. It all came down to that one question..."what am I here for"?
Hillsong in Australia cop a lot of flak for different reasons, but you know their music ministry has touched lives all over the world, including mine.
Different strokes for different folks I guess...so long as the correct gospel is being preached then someone is going to be blessed. Well I hope MomT doesn't feel too bad coz my comment is a long one too!!!


PENELOPE
"For I know the Plans I have for you, declares the Lord" Jer 29:11


alwayslivinlife
(Jude R)
62F
491 posts
11/14/2007 6:12 am

Ahh, Michael,

I was thinking about this on my commute to work. Have you ever seen the Grinch? I imagined the devil standing there wringing his hands with that sly grin on his face. He was thinking to himself…’I’m sooo good. I have them just where I want them.’ He wasn’t talking about the preachers, but the body of Christ and all the foolish dissensions and arguing that go on.

Joel Osteen
I have read his book. I enjoy listening to him preach. Some need to accept that he has the message/gift of encouragement. He always presents the gospel at the end of his sermon. When my father passed away, my mom was in a depression. One night while flipping through the channels she came upon Joel. She started watching him regularly. She told me several years later that if it hadn’t been for Joel’s encouraging message she may have gone of the deep end. His message brought her closer to God.

On the same note...When I heard of the investigation going on into certain ministries, I thought, well maybe it is a good thing. Not because I believe they are false prophets (profits), but because the issue of “not for profit” came up. I cannot be the judge of this, the government gives the non-profit status and if they determine that there is profit being made….well. We do need to be accountable. But, if there is no profit going on…are we going to judge ourselves for speaking out against the preachers of the Word. In my opinion, instead of us arguing over who is right in the issue, we should pray for God to be the judge in this situation. It seems that He is big enough to handle it. Pray for our government and leaders. Pray for the ministries.

The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD,
Like the rivers of water;
He turns it wherever He wishes.

Just a thought:We are in different stages of our walk with God (crawling/running, meat/milk, strong/beaten-down) It is hard to teach the high schoolers while in the nursery with crying babies. Do we think maybe God has a place where He needs us to be? And maybe that is not the place that you (meaning others in the Body) are? :Just a thought

As far as a "soft gospel"...the Gospel is never soft, no matter how you present it.

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest, brother.


selah62 61M

11/14/2007 7:24 am

I don't watch him but I have seen him before. I have heard a lot of talk about him. I understand he does not preach the Cross of Calvary or talk about the blood of Jesus Christ because he feels that would be too offensive.

The true Gospel of Jesus Christ is an offense and it is suppose to be! Paul said,

23] But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
I Corinthians 1:23,24


I have seen Joel Osteen interviewed a little bit, he seems to be a fine gentleman, but he does not preach the true Gospel message. This is just another example that we are living in the Last Days, people are falling away from the true Gospel and chasing after every wind of doctrine that comes along that fancies them.

1] I charge you therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His Kingdom;
2] Preach the Word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and Doctrine.
3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound Doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4] And they shall turn away their ears from the Truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5] But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an Evangelist, make full proof of your Ministry.
II Timothy 4:1-5


This is not the popular message of today, but the truth is, if the messanger is not preaching Jesus Christ crucified, then they are talking about "another gospel and another Jesus."

~ Believe His Word and trust His grace ~


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 8:21 am

    Quoting  :

God is whom we need!!! I want my Bible though!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 8:26 am

    Quoting  :

MomT, Thank you!!! If they throw rocks, I will stand in front of you!!!

Joels message is encouraging, family based, and loving. Lives are being changed and he is being used to point and lead people to Christ. I thank God for each life touched and saved!!!

Blessings to you MomT!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 8:30 am

    Quoting  :

Only if you want to share???
Please do not use others remarks here as your basis...
I did invite your opinion of Joel, so yes...

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 8:32 am

    Quoting  :

Care to share a thought or two?

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 8:35 am

    Quoting  :

Hearing both sides is good for those whom dont know, I do hope God lycook keeps it relevant... I really dont want to have to defuze others thoughs here... and again, thanks for sharing here!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 8:37 am

    Quoting  :

LIKE THIS?

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 8:41 am

    Quoting  :

You done a wonderful job explaining how I first felt and was ministered too by Joels tv evangelism... He is still a favorite and has much to teach... Please don't be sorry, thank you for your response...

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 8:43 am

    Quoting  :

Do you still want to delete it? I hope you will let it stand... Im 6'4" and 250#... I can stop a lot of rocks...

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 8:45 am

    Quoting  :

...and reallllllllly good post.....

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 8:48 am

    Quoting ms_littlething07:
    Don't be so hard on yourself my girl...you had relevant stuff to say, I enjoyed reading it!

    I get Joel's daily readings emailed to me and I have gotten a lot out of it. There have been times of encouragement when I needed it, comforting words when I needed it, convicting when I needed it. Some days it isn't relevant but then other days......wow!
    I have read a couple of Bill Hybels books and have gotten a lot out of them at the time. I can't remember any particular point but that doesn't mean that at some point in my life it wont come to me!
    Rick Warren...Purpose Driven Life...when our church did that series...well lets just say that was a turning point in my walk with Christ. It all came down to that one question..."what am I here for"?
    Hillsong in Australia cop a lot of flak for different reasons, but you know their music ministry has touched lives all over the world, including mine.
    Different strokes for different folks I guess...so long as the correct gospel is being preached then someone is going to be blessed. Well I hope MomT doesn't feel too bad coz my comment is a long one too!!!

Joel is a great encourager!!! I agree!!! Thanks for sharing and being of good encouragement!!! Learned from a lesson in love from Joel Im sure!!!

GBY!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 8:51 am

    Quoting alwayslivinlife:
    Ahh, Michael,

    I was thinking about this on my commute to work. Have you ever seen the Grinch? I imagined the devil standing there wringing his hands with that sly grin on his face. He was thinking to himself…’I’m sooo good. I have them just where I want them.’ He wasn’t talking about the preachers, but the body of Christ and all the foolish dissensions and arguing that go on.

    Joel Osteen
    I have read his book. I enjoy listening to him preach. Some need to accept that he has the message/gift of encouragement. He always presents the gospel at the end of his sermon. When my father passed away, my mom was in a depression. One night while flipping through the channels she came upon Joel. She started watching him regularly. She told me several years later that if it hadn’t been for Joel’s encouraging message she may have gone of the deep end. His message brought her closer to God.

    On the same note...When I heard of the investigation going on into certain ministries, I thought, well maybe it is a good thing. Not because I believe they are false prophets (profits), but because the issue of “not for profit” came up. I cannot be the judge of this, the government gives the non-profit status and if they determine that there is profit being made….well. We do need to be accountable. But, if there is no profit going on…are we going to judge ourselves for speaking out against the preachers of the Word. In my opinion, instead of us arguing over who is right in the issue, we should pray for God to be the judge in this situation. It seems that He is big enough to handle it. Pray for our government and leaders. Pray for the ministries.

    The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD,
    Like the rivers of water;
    He turns it wherever He wishes.

    Just a thought:We are in different stages of our walk with God (crawling/running, meat/milk, strong/beaten-down) It is hard to teach the high schoolers while in the nursery with crying babies. Do we think maybe God has a place where He needs us to be? And maybe that is not the place that you (meaning others in the Body) are? :Just a thought

    As far as a "soft gospel"...the Gospel is never soft, no matter how you present it.

    Thanks for letting me get this off my chest, brother.
Well said sister Jude!!! meat/milk... meets some exactly where they need to be met!

TY and GBY!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 8:54 am

    Quoting  :

Turning heads to Christ is being the shepherd we are asked to be... Thank you for sharing siennasun!!!

GBY!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 9:04 am

    Quoting selah62:
    I don't watch him but I have seen him before. I have heard a lot of talk about him. I understand he does not preach the Cross of Calvary or talk about the blood of Jesus Christ because he feels that would be too offensive.

    The true Gospel of Jesus Christ is an offense and it is suppose to be! Paul said,

    23] But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
    24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
    I Corinthians 1:23,24


    I have seen Joel Osteen interviewed a little bit, he seems to be a fine gentleman, but he does not preach the true Gospel message. This is just another example that we are living in the Last Days, people are falling away from the true Gospel and chasing after every wind of doctrine that comes along that fancies them.

    1] I charge you therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His Kingdom;
    2] Preach the Word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and Doctrine.
    3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound Doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
    4] And they shall turn away their ears from the Truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
    5] But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an Evangelist, make full proof of your Ministry.
    II Timothy 4:1-5


    This is not the popular message of today, but the truth is, if the messanger is not preaching Jesus Christ crucified, then they are talking about "another gospel and another Jesus."
I also lack the experience of being involved in Joels church by watching him enough to see exactly if he preaches the blood of Christ and Jesus...

Do we know what is being taught by his associate pastors?

Joel brings them in and others teach them to eat meat?

Perhaps!!! I will keep praying for his ministry and the 100,000's of lives experiencing his message!

Thanks selah and GBY!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 11:14 am

    Quoting  :

JJ... You have a very interesting theology in some areas... Hope you are doing great!

I do know the blood of Christ!!! Whose pointing the finger here???

GBY!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


OceanBlue122 56F

11/14/2007 12:28 pm

For me, I have a really strong religious base, so Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Pat Roberts, Joyce Meyers, and others, are like sprinkles on top of my ice cream. Don't necessarily need them, cuz, everything is just as good without, but add them on top and it makes me a little more special.


alwayslivinlife
(Jude R)
62F
491 posts
11/14/2007 1:49 pm

Amen, OceanBlue. If you read the Word and have a strong biblical base you can discern.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 2:31 pm

    Quoting OceanBlue122:
    For me, I have a really strong religious base, so Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Pat Roberts, Joyce Meyers, and others, are like sprinkles on top of my ice cream. Don't necessarily need them, cuz, everything is just as good without, but add them on top and it makes me a little more special.
Thank you Ocean blue for such a great analogy... Blessings!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 2:39 pm

    Quoting alwayslivinlife:
    Amen, OceanBlue. If you read the Word and have a strong biblical base you can discern.
Amen

Being in the Word is where God will use our gifts, like discernment and others!

Thanks! GBY Jude!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


NJBeliever 48M

11/14/2007 5:10 pm

Who does have a "strong biblical base"?? Who is a good and faithful servant? I know where you can find the answer. Matthew 24. Jesus warns us repeatedly, do not be deceived!! The good servant knows the signs of the end times and watches carefully. Rick Warren? Are you kidding me? He is a part of the ecumenical movement which embraces the idea that all religions can equally get to Heaven. And on his "40 Days of Community Program" which an estimated 10% of churches in America have used he has an image of the Tower of Babel as its symbol! The Tower is a symbol of rebellion from a Satanic King.

The Tower was the product of Nimrod, the Satanic mystery King who attempted to establish a one world government and try to reach Heaven from Earth in the event of another flood (Genesis 11). The Lord had instructed people to disperse after the Great Flood, but they chose to follow Nimrod instead, out of defiance. The Tower represented one of the greatest signs of rebellion in the Bible.

As we all should know, The Lord stopped construction of the Tower and confused the people with different languages, making them disperse. Then Shem, the son of Noah, killed Nimrod and chopped his body into pieces, sending the parts to different areas as a warning to everyone to stop satanic practices.

To no surprise, the Bible in Revelations tells us that once again, the agents of Satan will attempt to establish one world government, one economy and one currency at the end times (Revelation 13). Prior to moving to one government we will first have 10 nations (see Daniel 2:41), who will then surrender their power to the Antichrist who will rule globally. Looking at one of our "super states" already, the European Union. Google a picture of their headquarters. It is designed after the tower of Babel!

So seeing the Tower of Babel alone should be a HUGE red flag, if you have a "strong biblical base."

Mr. Warren also happens to be a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, one of the key organizations working to bring about the New World Order and one world government.

"Dear Saddleback Family... This week I shared part of this message in New York City where I spoke at the United Nations, and also to The Council on Foreign Relations." Group email to Saddleback sent by "Pastor Rick," September 17, 2005.

'As a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and Oxford Analytica, I might know as much about the Middle East as you."[2] A letter from Rick Warren to Joseph Farah


The “40 Days of Community” program is a 6-week emphasis on building “community” within the Church, and Dr. Warren’s example of the Tower of Babel was given at the conclusion of the 4th week. In essence, Dr. Warren related that the Tower of Babel was a perfect example of what could be accomplished when men and women work together to reach a common goal. He stated that the construction crew of the “Tower of Babel” worked so well as a group that God had to intervene to separate them

I will have more comments forthcoming, but I want to just start with this one point and ask why he would extol the virtues of the Tower of Babel and use it this way? Where is the Biblical basis in any of this?


Michael33333 replies on 11/14/2007 6:49 pm:
quite interesting... I will research more and look into this tower of babel...

Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/14/2007 6:35 pm

    Quoting  :

name it and claim it teaching... interesting theology!

Thanks Lisa! GBY!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


KEYHOLE 60M

11/14/2007 6:59 pm

Hey Michal ill share Gods view on the man & of course i have my input as well !!! Joel Olsteen is a people pleaser!! He doesnt want any conflict with people & as we know the words of JESUS CHRIST himself who said you be HATED by ALL for my names sake Isnt amazing how when confronted on hard core Issues such as Homosexuality politics[[ Those in Authority]] ect. Mr Joel seems to be Mr. Passive & doesnt address what God says about it but uses the EXCAPE route out & just says Smooth words so he wont Offend anyone !!!
I wrote Joel Olsteen a Letter of Admonishing& Rebuke for he isnt speaking Gods Truth in certain & Important issues that will& can Effect a persons Eternity !! Now dont get me wrong God places many in different callings for the building up of the Saints& perhaps Joel feels this is his calling which i am sure he does!! But to Passivly Ignore Key things written in Gods word & not deal with them wouldnt be a Pastor id Trust my soul to !!! I Believe Joel has a sincere heart for people hes just in a worldly rutt that God will have to Deliver him out of it!!! May we as Christians come against False Teaching & False Doctrine& may we RISE UP in the Power& the NAME of our God to STAND FIRM in His Truth !!! & brother thx for the question !! Now perhaps you can copy & paste all the comments & send them to Joels web sight to see how many are Offended by what he is doing !!! We are not called to be People pleasers!! We are called to be GOD Pleasers!!!In Christ Love Mark [[ The Heavenly Dove]]& Keyhole


Michael33333 replies on 11/14/2007 7:25 pm:
Hey mark... thanks for responding... Hope you are involved in a church that feeds you soul and the key of worship is to follow Jesus!

GBY!

NJBeliever 48M

11/15/2007 12:26 am

Hi Michael333 -- Please do look it up my brother. Be informed. We are instructed by our King and Savior Jesus Christ to JUDGE righteously, in accordance with Truth which is The Word of The True and Living God.

We are also told just a lit bit of leaven of unbiblical doctrine ruins the entire loaf of bread! This means just a little bit of bad doctrine mixed in with 99% Biblical doctrine ruins the entire message! I would love to hear someone explain the Biblical reason for Warren's choice of symbols and description of The Tower.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/15/2007 6:38 am

    Quoting NJBeliever:
    Hi Michael333 -- Please do look it up my brother. Be informed. We are instructed by our King and Savior Jesus Christ to JUDGE righteously, in accordance with Truth which is The Word of The True and Living God.

    We are also told just a lit bit of leaven of unbiblical doctrine ruins the entire loaf of bread! This means just a little bit of bad doctrine mixed in with 99% Biblical doctrine ruins the entire message! I would love to hear someone explain the Biblical reason for Warren's choice of symbols and description of The Tower.
I have read and studied the Purpose Driven Life and find it to be very uplifting for our community! A year and a half ago I had the priveledge of serving in New Orleans with a few men from Saddleback Church and we became immediate friends! I have been and am blessed thus far from the service of Rick Warren.

I also have read Your Best Life Now, and having tuned in to Joels tv messages, the one thing I can say for sure is that Ive always heard him speak TRUTH! It may not be the hell and brimstone... though his message is that similar of Christ... Parables of today's time's... Acceptability of all whom come... He reaches a broad spectrim in ministry and doesnt go into the weeds much... People hear our Lord's name in vane so much in the world that I believe Joel is in tune to planting a new seed of this love, hope, and faith. He reaches around the world and is fulfilling, "there will be those whom do greater things than I!!!"



Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/15/2007 8:27 am

    Quoting  :

Thanks for the response god lycook... I cant say that I agree completely with you... However there are things I do agree... and much more I do not agree with you.

Wake up!!! We all need to search individually in to the Word of God and He will direct us! God meets us where we seek Him from... I am a witness that God uses some of the forementioned evangelists to reach some of the lost in this world... A seed planted of goodness. Joyce Meyer showed me a side of God and His forgiveness that opened my heart to seek God from a lost state in my life. Joel planted seed that we can live life better than before, to improve from the point in which we are.

Jesus taught acceptability... of everyone. I will not condemn their ministries... I will use discernment to their messages...

Thanks again godlycook... God bless you!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/15/2007 11:07 am

    Quoting  :

Thanks Firecracker!!! I like your response... like livinlifes
response... maturity and acceptability is shown.

Blessing to you in your life of ministry! I am so glad to hear about your devotion in serving God! You bless me!

PEACE

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


walking_man
(Paul )
85M

11/15/2007 12:39 pm

Too many modern preachers to keep track of. I'm honestly not familiar with his preaching so much, but from what I've heard, I would probably have to agree with my nemesis... Too much pop psychology, prosperity theology, feel good...

Did someone say sprinkles? LOL

I like that.

I was thinking honestly, since I am not that familiar with his teachings...

He deserves his own doll, like Ken...
He deserves his own show, like The Bachelor...
maybe they could call it "reality Christianity"
kind of like it has something to do with life on planet earth.

But in fairness, I cannot judge his theology. ( Nice teeth and hair, though! Gotta give him props on the hair. )


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/15/2007 3:19 pm

    Quoting  :

Thanks again MomT!!! People are tired of being beat down... as children we are told to wait until we are a certain age... When we start working we are again told to wait, a promotion will come... wait wait wait!!! Joel does give a release to our heart that we can start now, no matter what the age or where we are at in life! These are messages that people have been wanting to hear... name it claim it... It is ok to start changing and doing what you've never done... in the name of good and not bad!

He was asked into this leadership role, I agree... and he has answered by leading... from a tragic beginning of his fathers death. God Bless Joel Osteen I say! Over the past two days I have gained a greater respect for his ministry than I had before! For some of you, you will rebuke this! However big his ministry grows, I will start watching him more and defend against his skeptics! Until a revelation of out right wrong doing... this is where I will stand with Joel!



Let the SON shine!!!
michael


walking_man
(Paul )
85M

11/16/2007 7:04 am

    Quoting  :

dinglefritz... See, and I already told you there were too many modern pop preachers to keep track of, now you have to use pop terminology. Had to look that one up.

As I said, I am not that well versed in his theology. I did notice in an interview he did for secular television which laid evangelical criticism at his doorstep, he didn't even mention the name of Jesus Christ in explaining what the gospel was about. Does that count?

The hair and teeth comments were * CORRECT! The answer is cynicism. * pointed at the fact that too many 'television only Christians' focus on the wrong thing. My impression from his own words were that his focus lacked. I can not and WILL NOT study every new preacher's writings. When he gets as big as Harry Potter, I may have to look into him further.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/16/2007 10:14 am

    Quoting  :

Popular opinion is Joel Osteen is sending a strong positive Christ based message to a lot of unchurched people as well as the Christian people he has a marvelous smile, excellent reputation, good family background, 'hands "up" to vote.... He's a great minister !!

AMEN!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/16/2007 10:25 am

    Quoting  :

Jesus preached forgiveness and life anew... He was compassionate and accepted all... He taught even those whom opposed Him in a parable that they could relate with to help them see the LIGHT! The woman at the well felt better after Jesus spoke to her.

1000's of years!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/16/2007 7:04 pm

    Quoting  :

1 John 3:20
Even if we feel guilty, God is greater than our feelings, and he knows everything.

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/16/2007 7:44 pm

    Quoting  :

What will everyone do with the love they have been given to share? Would we take all we have and give it too the poor? Could we give up our life to a complete stranger? Would we keep a homeless person warm on a cold wintery night? Could we be nice to a kitten?

Take this Love of Gods design... give it to all!!!
Love you!!!


Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/16/2007 7:50 pm

    Quoting  :

Thanks Eli... He's a MOG!!! All of us are sinners...

God Bless you Eli!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/16/2007 9:08 pm

    Quoting  :

I did record Joels message from tonight and I look forward to hearing it as well!

Praise God for the sermon that lifts our spirit just as God designed!

God bless you!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/16/2007 9:47 pm

    Quoting walking_man:
    dinglefritz... See, and I already told you there were too many modern pop preachers to keep track of, now you have to use pop terminology. Had to look that one up.

    As I said, I am not that well versed in his theology. I did notice in an interview he did for secular television which laid evangelical criticism at his doorstep, he didn't even mention the name of Jesus Christ in explaining what the gospel was about. Does that count?

    The hair and teeth comments were * CORRECT! The answer is cynicism. * pointed at the fact that too many 'television only Christians' focus on the wrong thing. My impression from his own words were that his focus lacked. I can not and WILL NOT study every new preacher's writings. When he gets as big as Harry Potter, I may have to look into him further.
If Harry Potter is 'Big'... That would mean in numbers and or viewers... And since Joels church is one of the largest (top3) in the US... How big is big enough to look?

I think your missing one of the biggest churches in the US.

Do you have a meaning for dinglefritz? I couldn't find it in webster...

GBY!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/16/2007 10:31 pm

Lakewood Church in Houston TX is the US's largest church on the top 100 US church's this year with 47,000 in attendance each weekend and approx 10,000,000 people tune in to Joel Osteen sermon each Sunday.

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/16/2007 11:29 pm

    Quoting  :

dingle fritz: house cat... thats my best guess...

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/16/2007 11:32 pm

    Quoting  :

Just checking for a definition on dinglefritz... is it a house cat?

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/17/2007 1:41 pm

    Quoting  :

Thank you Annie... That is an awesome feeling, a humbling feeling, you are right! Sometimes feelings are expressed in adverbs and adjectives!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


DaughterofGod531 52F
116 posts
11/17/2007 5:42 pm

Have you ever heard of the "one hit wonders" kind of songs. Those kinds of songs that make one good song then you dont really hear of them again and if you do it's years later. Well, that's how Joel and Rick are in my life. Dont get me wrong, they are great and use creativity to God's word used differently so we can relate and understand more. Very motiviating. Rick WArren put everything into perceptive for me on "The purpose" and Joel, always love watching him when I do, but i am more deeper, straight forward, meat kind of Christian. I enjoy listening to the Word in it's true flesh...RAW. Like in my church Freedom TAbernacle in Kiss. Fla. My Pastor does not play, he tells it as it is, he doesnt candy coat anything, and if you dont like it then that's your problem. That kind of preaching brings correction and tells me exactly what it means to walk the narrow road. When I chose to follow Christ, I took the Cross, nails, blood, and everything else associated with Jesus...the Good and the vallies.

Everyone is different and cannot deal with the Raw-ness of the bible. But like i said...Joel and Rick are great, just not my cup of tea on a daily basis.


That's just my opinion.


walking_man
(Paul )
85M

11/17/2007 6:10 pm

    Quoting Michael33333:
    If Harry Potter is 'Big'... That would mean in numbers and or viewers... And since Joels church is one of the largest (top3) in the US... How big is big enough to look?

    I think your missing one of the biggest churches in the US.

    Do you have a meaning for dinglefritz? I couldn't find it in webster...

    GBY!!!
I do know he is one of the biggest at the moment, still a far cry from the Harry Potter crowd. I found dinglefritz by googling the word. I've forgotten the exact description but you really already know the meaning... a superfluous bit of fluff, a wacko, etc.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/17/2007 7:25 pm

    Quoting  :

hey Sensory...

Might I suggest looking up Lakewood church for yourself or tuning in to Joel's message tomorrow morning. And with a little research you will hear his answers as to why he preaches as he does... he does keep an open book with all interviewers. I found the research quite interesting and for myself, gained more respect for him as a leader of the largest church in the US.

Thanks!
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/17/2007 7:34 pm

    Quoting  :

Hey sensory...

If you will look in you NIV, under the life application explanation, you will find the word feel and feeling...

As sinners, unworthy... it is grace to acceptance... so great that God knows where we have come from and where we will go. This speaks of the GREAT LOVE that GOD has for us... He will lead us... in LOVE!

Hope you will take a moment and research this.

GBY!
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/17/2007 7:39 pm

    Quoting walking_man:
    I do know he is one of the biggest at the moment, still a far cry from the Harry Potter crowd. I found dinglefritz by googling the word. I've forgotten the exact description but you really already know the meaning... a superfluous bit of fluff, a wacko, etc.
If I had to guess... no, you didn't...

Enjoy your Harry Potter...

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/17/2007 7:44 pm

    Quoting DaughterofGod531:
    Have you ever heard of the "one hit wonders" kind of songs. Those kinds of songs that make one good song then you dont really hear of them again and if you do it's years later. Well, that's how Joel and Rick are in my life. Dont get me wrong, they are great and use creativity to God's word used differently so we can relate and understand more. Very motiviating. Rick WArren put everything into perceptive for me on "The purpose" and Joel, always love watching him when I do, but i am more deeper, straight forward, meat kind of Christian. I enjoy listening to the Word in it's true flesh...RAW. Like in my church Freedom TAbernacle in Kiss. Fla. My Pastor does not play, he tells it as it is, he doesnt candy coat anything, and if you dont like it then that's your problem. That kind of preaching brings correction and tells me exactly what it means to walk the narrow road. When I chose to follow Christ, I took the Cross, nails, blood, and everything else associated with Jesus...the Good and the vallies.

    Everyone is different and cannot deal with the Raw-ness of the bible. But like i said...Joel and Rick are great, just not my cup of tea on a daily basis.


    That's just my opinion.
What I do enjoy most about these men is studying there ways of teaching... To look deeper as to why they teach and preach as they do to build the super mega church they have. It is to unchurched people that I evangelize to the most... and these types of message's reach them and point them in to a relationship with Christ..

Great comments! Thanks!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


JesusFreakMamere 52F

11/17/2007 11:44 pm

The dude has great hair...

but that is about it. I tried to follow his sermon once.. it sounded nice and everything until I tried to follow along with my bible.. Most of the scripture references he used were not in my bible..and that freaked me out.. He actually denied Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven on the Larry King Live show.. you can look into this yourselves... google apologetics and joel..there is an entire section on him

ive also seen a few people say it's okay to be a feel good teacher.. however that isn't how our Savior is.. He is the example and He didn't really care if you felt "good" He spoke truth..

im done..but i have to admit i love that dudes hair

ps ps

did you know he SOLD seats for fifteen hundred apiece when he built his new building to help fund it


JesusFreakMamere 52F

11/17/2007 11:52 pm

wow, i just went back and read some of the comments on here.. "A Strong Christian BASED Message"

how does that bring people to Christ? How is living better NOW matter if you spend eternity in hell.. I don't have a problem with encouraging others but tell them the truth for the love of God...for the love that took Christ to the cross and nailed Him there..

Tell them they will die in their sins if they deny Christ... it's not about going to hell..or damnation it's about truth.. Either the truth is the Truth..Christ or it's something else..

this is a real reflection of our society in general..


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/18/2007 1:46 pm

    Quoting  :

hey mom of 3....

I was able to check out the highlights of the Larry King interview on the christian news website... I personally think it's great to see a man called to ministry without the credentials of man... a degree... He speaks LIFE in to others instead of death... we people are from a broken world, most come from divorced family's and blended new family's... I can relate with his positions and my opinion... he has some great lessons to teach! On the other side of the coin... i would hope he would share Christ and Jesus... and will all are and come from a sinning past... however, he is doing the best job that he can and it shows...

God bless you sister in Christ!
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/18/2007 2:00 pm

    Quoting JesusFreakMamere:
    The dude has great hair...

    but that is about it. I tried to follow his sermon once.. it sounded nice and everything until I tried to follow along with my bible.. Most of the scripture references he used were not in my bible..and that freaked me out.. He actually denied Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven on the Larry King Live show.. you can look into this yourselves... google apologetics and joel..there is an entire section on him

    ive also seen a few people say it's okay to be a feel good teacher.. however that isn't how our Savior is.. He is the example and He didn't really care if you felt "good" He spoke truth..

    im done..but i have to admit i love that dudes hair

    ps ps

    did you know he SOLD seats for fifteen hundred apiece when he built his new building to help fund it
To each church there own when it comes to raising funds for needs...

I believe in one time of giving, on Sunday... and out of this, everything... EVERYTHING the church does in missions, youth, outreach, fellowship, bible study materials, etc., come out of the church fund... if you have extra and want to pay for materials, a trip, anything... it comes out of the general fund. I have seen this work first hand! It does work! Those who can give, do... and those who want to be involved and can't afford it, will not be singled out.

So as for 1500.00 seats to raise church funds... let it be...

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/18/2007 2:05 pm

    Quoting  :

Its a broken world.. we need to LOVE EACH OTHER... that would make anyone feel good... love each other in to a relationship with Jesus!

John 15:17 "I command you to love each other!"

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


jil87 68F

11/18/2007 4:15 pm

I personally Love Joel Osteens' Ministry.I feel like I have been to Christian counceling every time I hear Him speak,..and,...I feel like I've gotten a lifetime of knowledge on how to treat myself,..and others,..and how to walk in Gods' will,..in only 1 hr. or 1/2 hr. segments.He truly is a blessing and inspiration to me.Thank you!GBY!,...Jil..

Jesus is the TRUTH..the LIFE..and the WAY..


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/18/2007 7:24 pm

    Quoting  :

OK Sensory...

Feelings can mis lead... feelings are not the same thing as a heart felt experience...

When we know something in our heart... it will direct our life.

In the case of a lost soul... their heart drives their life in to their area of addiction... etc...

In the case of a believer... that truely has accepted our Lord Jesus Christ in to thei rheart... it is Him, through the Holy Spirit, that will direct our life, through our hearts...

Trust your heart in the name of Christ!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/18/2007 7:29 pm

    Quoting jil87:
    I personally Love Joel Osteens' Ministry.I feel like I have been to Christian counceling every time I hear Him speak,..and,...I feel like I've gotten a lifetime of knowledge on how to treat myself,..and others,..and how to walk in Gods' will,..in only 1 hr. or 1/2 hr. segments.He truly is a blessing and inspiration to me.Thank you!GBY!,...Jil..
Thank you Jil!!! I am glad that you have had a great experience in Joels ministry... I have learned much as well.

Blessings to you!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/18/2007 7:43 pm

    Quoting  :

Ok... Why are you the one digging holes in to a ministry that you appartently do not agree with!

And to compare Joel to Jone's cult... you are being a complete skeptic... You are way out of line... So maybe you need to go elsewhere for the answer your looking for.

Write Joel himself... write Larry King, he might tell you what you want to hear...

My blog page was for your opinion... not for you to dig holes in others joy... you've wore out your opinion posting place here...

So yes! I am asking you to take your shovel elsewhere!!!

In Christ love!
michael

Thank you!


Let the SON shine!!!
michael


KYrphtheboss 54M

11/18/2007 8:38 pm

    Quoting selah62:
    I don't watch him but I have seen him before. I have heard a lot of talk about him. I understand he does not preach the Cross of Calvary or talk about the blood of Jesus Christ because he feels that would be too offensive.

    The true Gospel of Jesus Christ is an offense and it is suppose to be! Paul said,

    23] But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
    24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
    I Corinthians 1:23,24


    I have seen Joel Osteen interviewed a little bit, he seems to be a fine gentleman, but he does not preach the true Gospel message. This is just another example that we are living in the Last Days, people are falling away from the true Gospel and chasing after every wind of doctrine that comes along that fancies them.

    1] I charge you therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His Kingdom;
    2] Preach the Word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and Doctrine.
    3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound Doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
    4] And they shall turn away their ears from the Truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
    5] But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an Evangelist, make full proof of your Ministry.
    II Timothy 4:1-5


    This is not the popular message of today, but the truth is, if the messanger is not preaching Jesus Christ crucified, then they are talking about "another gospel and another Jesus."
AMEN! Beware of false witnesses and false doctrines. He does seem
like a fine gentlemen. However, GOD destroyed the earth with water and will again with fire and brimstone. Christ died and shed his blood for all of mankind's sins. So, to say that WE SHOULD NOT FEAR GOD is truly wrong. For it says fear no man, man can only kill thy body, For GOd can not only destroy thy body but condemn thy soul to eternal damnation. Therefore, it is not all Blessed for many have long suffering to seek the narrow path to the kingdom of heaven. I am very weary of his teachings. The 60minutes interview revealed the money taken in, over 100 million in a year; smiling faces, I guess. For will not that who returns telling everyone what they want to hear be known as the "Anti-Christ"?


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/18/2007 9:27 pm

    Quoting KYrphtheboss:
    AMEN! Beware of false witnesses and false doctrines. He does seem
    like a fine gentlemen. However, GOD destroyed the earth with water and will again with fire and brimstone. Christ died and shed his blood for all of mankind's sins. So, to say that WE SHOULD NOT FEAR GOD is truly wrong. For it says fear no man, man can only kill thy body, For GOd can not only destroy thy body but condemn thy soul to eternal damnation. Therefore, it is not all Blessed for many have long suffering to seek the narrow path to the kingdom of heaven. I am very weary of his teachings. The 60minutes interview revealed the money taken in, over 100 million in a year; smiling faces, I guess. For will not that who returns telling everyone what they want to hear be known as the "Anti-Christ"?
Thanks for posting KY...Boss...!

I do agree with you on most everything... The 100 million can be accounted for in number of members and viewers somewhat easily... It would be the spending side of that in which it may concern me... is it a nest egg or are they using it to serve ministry and missions in the same 100 million dollar fassion? I can not judge.

Most of Joel's 10 million viewers also watch and attend other teaching that help keep them Christ based... Joel is only a small tool of many tools for the Kingdom of God... I attend 3 different churches and am an associate at one. I recieve a well rounded teaching in the church alone, this dosnt include others readings, viewings, and lessons that I am involved in every week...

and as for the anti christ? I will watch out and beware! Thanks!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


JesusFreakMamere 52F

11/18/2007 9:43 pm

Ok..well enough of what we think..what does the Bible say about people with itchy ears who don't want to hear the full message...

A good site to check out for a balanced and EDUCATED view..is apologetic index..which carries a few articles on Osteen..both John and Joel..
I find it particularly interesting he has never been to seminary..this is a quote from an interview Osteen’s upbeat style is deliberate and authentic. ‘Make church relevant,’ he says. ‘Give them something to be able to take away. I find today people are not looking for theology.

2Ti 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables

2Ti 4:-2

I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine

Eze 34:2 -3

Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe [be] to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: [but] ye feed not the flock.

all quotes used from the apologetic index.. articled titled
"The Leaven at Lakewood" by By Rev. Robert S. Liichow

http://bigchurch.com


CommittedHeart 56F

11/18/2007 10:03 pm

Osteen: I think that Joel Osteen has the gift of encouragement, and that he is a talented author. I also read his book and went thru his devotional series and it was very helpful. I am very cautious about criticizing/critiqueing the people that are doing the Lord's work. But, I also recognize that I cannot survive and mature as a Christian on encouragement alone. When I was recently in Houston for a period on business, I was given a glimpse into the experiences of the people that live in "his neighborhood". He and his church do not engage in any community outreach or ministry. And he has been quoted as saying that this is not "what he is here to do". That was very disappointing for me and ( in my opinion) his minstry has missed a grrat opportunity in their own city. I believe that we are all called to help and reach out to others in addition to any other ministry gifts. My final thoughts. He is a man, like any other, subject to successes and failures and human failings, and he is doing an excellent job of bringing encouragement to thousands ( maybe millions) on a daily basis. And, in today's world, an encouraging word is needed every day.

CommittedHeart


chapscot 60M

11/19/2007 1:26 am

Hi Michael,I`ve haven`t even heard of this guy,I guess we in scotland live in the dark agesthat`s why there are so many American churches springing up all over scotland.
Any way,I always find there`s good and bad teaching in every mans ministry.I have yet to meet a preacher,(even the age old legends of the past),who had it all.You take what you feel you can,and leave the rest.I don`t know the value of discrediting any ones ministry though.
Even Paul said,some people preach the Gospel for selfish end,but he rejoiced that the Gospel was being preached.
I think I should go and check this guy out now,since he creates so much controversy.
GBY
stevie

"This is the year of the favor of our God"

"Your time has come to shine.
All your dreams are on their way.
See how they shine."(Bridge over troubled waters)


NJBeliever 48M

11/19/2007 2:18 pm

Hey Michael -- I don't want to pile on here since lots of people are responding to you, but regarding Rick Warren, I was asking you to research the Tower of Babel and wanted your thoughts on why anyone would use this as a symbol of their Christian ministry and why Warren would extol the virtues of it.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/19/2007 3:08 pm

    Quoting JesusFreakMamere:
    Ok..well enough of what we think..what does the Bible say about people with itchy ears who don't want to hear the full message...

    A good site to check out for a balanced and EDUCATED view..is apologetic index..which carries a few articles on Osteen..both John and Joel..
    I find it particularly interesting he has never been to seminary..this is a quote from an interview Osteen’s upbeat style is deliberate and authentic. ‘Make church relevant,’ he says. ‘Give them something to be able to take away. I find today people are not looking for theology.

    2Ti 4:3-4
    For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables

    2Ti 4:-2

    I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine

    Eze 34:2 -3

    Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe [be] to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: [but] ye feed not the flock.

    all quotes used from the apologetic index.. articled titled
    "The Leaven at Lakewood" by By Rev. Robert S. Liichow

    http://bigchurch.com
Mamere... You do great research... I do agree that Joel lacks in sharing the full message of the Bible and gospels... He also admits this and is very aware of what he preaches...

Non of us are Jesus, and we all need many teachers... at least three solid christian teachers gives us a well rounded teaching and holds them accountable for what they teach.

Hope you are planted in a solid church in the foundation of Christ!

GBY!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/19/2007 3:13 pm

    Quoting CommittedHeart:
    Osteen: I think that Joel Osteen has the gift of encouragement, and that he is a talented author. I also read his book and went thru his devotional series and it was very helpful. I am very cautious about criticizing/critiqueing the people that are doing the Lord's work. But, I also recognize that I cannot survive and mature as a Christian on encouragement alone. When I was recently in Houston for a period on business, I was given a glimpse into the experiences of the people that live in "his neighborhood". He and his church do not engage in any community outreach or ministry. And he has been quoted as saying that this is not "what he is here to do". That was very disappointing for me and ( in my opinion) his minstry has missed a grrat opportunity in their own city. I believe that we are all called to help and reach out to others in addition to any other ministry gifts. My final thoughts. He is a man, like any other, subject to successes and failures and human failings, and he is doing an excellent job of bringing encouragement to thousands ( maybe millions) on a daily basis. And, in today's world, an encouraging word is needed every day.
Thank you Committed Heart!!!

Joel does have a impact on the lost and those in dis belief... he also teaches to the new believer in a lifting way... I read his book soon after i was born again and there were many great truth's, scripturally based, that helped me in my new walk in Christ.

There is a point to where we must gain a deeper understanding... And now when I look back on Joels teaching's, he's like a salvation/encourager preacher...

GBY you and have a wonderful thanksgiving!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/19/2007 3:19 pm

    Quoting chapscot:
    Hi Michael,I`ve haven`t even heard of this guy,I guess we in scotland live in the dark agesthat`s why there are so many American churches springing up all over scotland.
    Any way,I always find there`s good and bad teaching in every mans ministry.I have yet to meet a preacher,(even the age old legends of the past),who had it all.You take what you feel you can,and leave the rest.I don`t know the value of discrediting any ones ministry though.
    Even Paul said,some people preach the Gospel for selfish end,but he rejoiced that the Gospel was being preached.
    I think I should go and check this guy out now,since he creates so much controversy.
    GBY
    stevie
Great post Steve... Thanks for your word of acceptance, just like paul and Jesus...

Keep on writing Bro, your words always give me thoughts in growth!

God Bless you!
PEACE!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/19/2007 3:42 pm

    Quoting NJBeliever:
    Hey Michael -- I don't want to pile on here since lots of people are responding to you, but regarding Rick Warren, I was asking you to research the Tower of Babel and wanted your thoughts on why anyone would use this as a symbol of their Christian ministry and why Warren would extol the virtues of it.
I have just started researching this use of the tower of babel by Rick Warren and will definitly have to do much more fact finding than just reading a few article's on the use...

Having the facts will be essential to properly blogging this occurence. Keep watch for a future blog when the time and facts are in line. Thanks for encouraging me into a deeper understanding of this.

GBY!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/19/2007 5:26 pm

Amen!!! It is for some and not for others...

Thank you!!! GBY!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/19/2007 7:47 pm

    Quoting  :

And a great point indeed!!!

Thank you Eli for your witness!!!


Let the SON shine!!!
michael


NJBeliever 48M

11/20/2007 3:29 am

    Quoting Michael33333:
    I have just started researching this use of the tower of babel by Rick Warren and will definitly have to do much more fact finding than just reading a few article's on the use...

    Having the facts will be essential to properly blogging this occurence. Keep watch for a future blog when the time and facts are in line. Thanks for encouraging me into a deeper understanding of this.

    GBY!!!
No question my brother. I know this thread is growing rapidly so I don't expect you to respond right away. But I just wanted your thoughts on it.


NJBeliever 48M

11/20/2007 3:53 am

    Quoting  :

First off the Bible instructs us to judge righteous judgment (John 7:24), in accordance with the Bible. I am not here to attack anyone. I am only here to point out Bible doctrine. And The Bible warns us that this age we are living in will be one of rampant Biblical illiteracy and false preaching. For example (now that I am deep in study of Olsteen's book. And for the record, I also own DVDs of Creflo Dollar (Thanking and Praising parts I and I, T.D. Jakes (The Mystery of The Touch Me Nots) and Paula White (The Meaning of Your Salvation and More Than a Cup). I do not comment on anything based on rumors or hearsay. I watch and study things to make an informed decision.)

This is from page 40 of Olsteen's book:

I love the Scripture that says, 'If we belong to Christ, we are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.' That means that we can all experience the blessings of Abraham. If you study Abraham's record, you'll discover that he was prosperous, healthy, and lived a long, productive life. Even though he didn't always make the best choices, he enjoyed God's blessings and favor.

Now this sounds very nice but this verse is a reference to Christ our Savior, not to living a "prosperous" and healthy life on Earth. How do I know this? Well for one, we can read the verse in context and secondly the Apostle Paul, our Apostle, confirms it in Galatians 3:29

3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


The "promise" is salvation through Jesus Christ! That verse is referring to Christ. That is what Christ is about. Having a prosperous afterlife. Saving your soul from damnation in hell, since we were born in sin, falling short of The Glory of The Father. You are an heir to eternal life.

Again, I am just giving this as examples for people to think about. I don't have all the answers. I will never profess to. But I know the Bible does. I only encourage everyone to study the Bible! Read Matthew 24. Listen to what our Master, King and Savior Jesus Christ says about this era we are living in. We are to have a spirit of discernment and know our Bible doctrine. Just because someone says the name of Jesus doesn't mean they are following the Bible. Jesus and Paul tells us this time and time again.

I pray for Joel Olsteen and every preacher that they be grounded in The Truth that is The Word of The True and Living God.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/20/2007 6:07 am

    Quoting  :

Welcome back terrie...

Thank you...
"But, thank God for free choice, if you don't like him, don't watch him."

Well said!!!

Now... about the race... did you have a great time? It looked hot... And what about Kennseth and JJ... Gordan made it a fun show as well... I will look forward to a blog to recap your experience.

Prayers and blessings for you!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/20/2007 6:12 am

    Quoting NJBeliever:
    No question my brother. I know this thread is growing rapidly so I don't expect you to respond right away. But I just wanted your thoughts on it.
Rick started this chapter of 'tower of babel' in 2004... it has been exposed and critisized by many skeptics thus far... It didnt take me long to find many reviews on this teaching of his...

I will not base my thoughts on their's... rather I will have to read his material for myself... and my read list is extensive at the moment and my to do list is even longer than that...

Keep in touch bro... Blessings!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/20/2007 9:22 am

    Quoting  :

Like... "because I said so!!!"

and... "this is the way we've always done it!!!"

I grew up in one of those homes... And a lot of non christian
behavior was taught... learned behavior can be overcomed!!!

We can be directed to a better life, then we must accept it!!!

Thanks MomT!
GBY sister!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Rebekah06 69F

11/21/2007 3:31 pm

I love Joel's encouraging words. He brings the people in, then encourages them to get into a Bible based Church/class. Lakewood does not have many Bible study classes, but is expanding in that area.

Blessings, Rebekah

We are designed like God-- fully human, fully alive.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/21/2007 3:46 pm

    Quoting JesusFreakMamere:
    wow, i just went back and read some of the comments on here.. "A Strong Christian BASED Message"

    how does that bring people to Christ? How is living better NOW matter if you spend eternity in hell.. I don't have a problem with encouraging others but tell them the truth for the love of God...for the love that took Christ to the cross and nailed Him there..

    Tell them they will die in their sins if they deny Christ... it's not about going to hell..or damnation it's about truth.. Either the truth is the Truth..Christ or it's something else..

    this is a real reflection of our society in general..
For a non believer... Joel offers salvation at the end of his messages most every time Ive watched him... and it would be nice for him to expand his salvation message...

Assumming that the parishiners have accepted Christ on the cross, as the Son of Man... there is a message of a better life now... Whats the fruit of the spirit? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self control. From most peoples past... these are better than where they came from.

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/21/2007 4:55 pm

    Quoting Rebekah06:
    I love Joel's encouraging words. He brings the people in, then encourages them to get into a Bible based Church/class. Lakewood does not have many Bible study classes, but is expanding in that area.

    Blessings, Rebekah
Thank you Rebekah!!! I will pray for Joel in that he and Lakewood church establish more Bible studies for all whom attend...

Happy Thanksgiving!!!
God Bless you!
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


joyful0061 62F

11/22/2007 1:00 pm

Hi Michal,
WOW, I've spend quite a bit of time to read this from the beginning to the end. Quite a discussion going on here.
I personally never heard Joel. There aren't too many Christian programs here in Germany, and I do not have the Christian chanel.

My opinion from what I have read here is, that it sounds like Joel is opening the door to people to get to know Christ, like getting their mouth watering to get an appetite to learn more on their own.

I can also see from some of the comments that whom is lots forgiven, loves lots. I believe that people who have been through a lot, can relate to people who go through the same and they can express more love to them then those who look down on the people on the streets.

Jesus did say the truth to people, that is right, yet whom did he talk to harsh, not to the sinners and tax-collectors, the harsh words were said mostly to the "Know-it-all people"

Keep spreading His love, Michal, you're doing a great job and are an encouragement to others in a great way on BC.
You've been quite a gentlemen in responding to some of the posts.
God bless you.

Annie

What God does in our lives during the waiting period is just as important as what we are waiting for.
John Ortberg


CHRISTIAN WAYS TO REDUCE STRESS


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/22/2007 2:20 pm

Annie... a blessing you are to me on this day of thanksgiving here in the US... I am thankful for you and your kind words and encouragement that you speak in to my life...

And as far as Joel... You have come to the same conclusion as I... Joel is doing a great job at getting the lost, unsaved, and unchurched to look at the bible and Jesus...

We can continue to pray for his ministry to reach them and teach them the truth in Christ...

Thank you Annie!!! God bless you!!!

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


cnatukunda 38F

11/23/2007 3:13 am

    Quoting  :

I guess that's one of the things i like about him...

Well, i don't watch his teachings regularly and i've had only a brief look at his book but the few sermons i've watched were wonderful. i love his teachings...

Am richly blessed, highly favoured and deeply loved of God


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/23/2007 10:24 am

    Quoting cnatukunda:
    I guess that's one of the things i like about him...

    Well, i don't watch his teachings regularly and i've had only a brief look at his book but the few sermons i've watched were wonderful. i love his teachings...


There's much ministry in a great smile!!!

Thanks and GBY!!!
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


whitebutterfly1
(Rosie )
66F

11/26/2007 5:47 pm

Joel Osteen,
He is a true christian inspiration. He preaches in a way that it is easy to understand and grasp into your heart.
I look forward to hear God's precious message through him. I've heard some of his cd's and I must confess I felt the Holy Spirit talking to me.Every word he said lead into a conclution of God's word.It really made a big difference in my life.It is wonderful to feel that you are filled with a great anointing.
I pray that God will continue using him for His Glory.
May God Bless you all.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/26/2007 7:07 pm

    Quoting whitebutterfly1:
    Joel Osteen,
    He is a true christian inspiration. He preaches in a way that it is easy to understand and grasp into your heart.
    I look forward to hear God's precious message through him. I've heard some of his cd's and I must confess I felt the Holy Spirit talking to me.Every word he said lead into a conclution of God's word.It really made a big difference in my life.It is wonderful to feel that you are filled with a great anointing.
    I pray that God will continue using him for His Glory.
    May God Bless you all.
Hello Whitebutterfly...

I agree on you analogy!!! it is great too see the response he inspires to the unchurched and those of unbelief!!!

May God bless his ministry!!!
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/27/2007 6:53 pm

    Quoting  :

I read a story here on BC about life giving words... cant remember who posted it though...

It was about a man who was in the hospital undergoing open heart surgery... at one point during the procedure... the Dr.s had to stop the heart for a few moments... when they tried to restart his heart, nothing happened, they tried everything... so the lead Dr. bent down to the man's ear and said, "we need your help here, we can't get your heart started and we need you to do it." That very instant, his heart started beating again...

Speaking words of life can give life in a most amazing way!

Add a smile and who can resist...

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


thanksjesus 47F

11/29/2007 11:27 am

We could all learn from his outlook on life. I think he is fine, but if that is the only place you are looking to get preached at... you should listen to others as well. We aren't his judge, but I didn't feel comfortable with his response on Mitch Romney's bid for president. I don't think he has done research on the mormon church. He said he believes that Romney believes in Jesus, just like he does. But, the Jesus mormon's believe in is not the same one we believe in. I watch him and he makes me feel uplifted. He does talk about God during the sermon and poses an invitation to accept Jesus at the conclusion.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/29/2007 1:14 pm

    Quoting thanksjesus:
    We could all learn from his outlook on life. I think he is fine, but if that is the only place you are looking to get preached at... you should listen to others as well. We aren't his judge, but I didn't feel comfortable with his response on Mitch Romney's bid for president. I don't think he has done research on the mormon church. He said he believes that Romney believes in Jesus, just like he does. But, the Jesus mormon's believe in is not the same one we believe in. I watch him and he makes me feel uplifted. He does talk about God during the sermon and poses an invitation to accept Jesus at the conclusion.
Im not up on Joels opinions for politics nor what his view are on the mormons and other religions...

I do agree that he preaches about God and obedience to righteousness... and always offers salvation...

I will continue to support Joels ministry...

Thanks for your comment JC....
You ready to go riding?
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
11/29/2007 2:24 pm

    Quoting  :

Thank you afaithfuldreamer!!!

Very nicely said!!!

michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
12/1/2007 2:56 am

I dont think Joel Osteen is good for a believer. He teaches humanism and is very weak and misleading in his teachings. Humanism and the word of God do not mix. 13% reportedly of his congregagtion is gay and he refuses to call it an abomination which is what the word calls it.

He is into the Word of Faith which is heretical teaching and based in mind controls of New Age teaching and not scriptural at all.

I do not believe Rick Warren is even saved. Not from his poor scriptural understanding. He also is into huge New Age, and uses the message translation of the bible which is mysticism and uses many new age demonic terms in it.

Bill Hybel is also New Age and into ecunumerism which we are warned about as is Warren. They should all be avoided.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
12/1/2007 8:00 am

    Quoting Tropical_Man:
    I dont think Joel Osteen is good for a believer. He teaches humanism and is very weak and misleading in his teachings. Humanism and the word of God do not mix. 13% reportedly of his congregagtion is gay and he refuses to call it an abomination which is what the word calls it.

    He is into the Word of Faith which is heretical teaching and based in mind controls of New Age teaching and not scriptural at all.

    I do not believe Rick Warren is even saved. Not from his poor scriptural understanding. He also is into huge New Age, and uses the message translation of the bible which is mysticism and uses many new age demonic terms in it.

    Bill Hybel is also New Age and into ecunumerism which we are warned about as is Warren. They should all be avoided.
Thanks for commenting Tropical man...
I don't agree with you completely, I watched Joel last evening... found him baseing much of his preaching in scripture... He shared the name of Jesus and God and called people to come to Jesus at the end of his sermon...

No he's not for all... however, Jesus is for all!!! God will speak to us through many... He will teach us through many different ministry's...

I hope you have a great Christmas season in Christ!!!
God bless!
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
12/1/2007 4:00 pm

    Quoting  :

I liked his opening joke as well...

About having a dead mule in the church yard on Sunday morning... and the city said it had to be ordered by the mayor for approval to be removed... so when the preacher called the mayor and told him the circumstance, the mayor said, "isnt this what your job is... dealing with the dead"... and the pastors response was, " yes, thats why Im notifying the next of kin"...

It was much funnier to here Joel tell it...

GBY MomT!!!
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


tikcufan33 49M

12/5/2007 3:39 pm

There's a much deeper meaning to this questionnaire than just do we like or dislike Joel Osteen's message for I know from pastor buddies of mine that his outreach ministry is awesome, he has a great heart and is a firm believer.

as with anything with GOD without faith there's no way to please GOD. As with any teaching we need to get to the meat of the subject if you intend to survive let alone thrive in the environment. GOD says my people die for lack of knowledge. Cannot muddle down the message and hope that the people will know how to stand firm when the stones are cast. YOU become an instant target for the enemy when you stand against his ways and if you don't know who you are... you don't know the power thats at your prayer fingertips. Joel as with every other pastor will be held accountable for the sheep that he has been given to tend. If you remember the parable in mark where Jesus said about the 3 men he gave 10/5/1 tallens to for those who much is given much is expected.

I have never really been fond of big churches. TO many people come there to hear a pretty message and go... no accountability. those who really want to get feed cannot because their are to many babies there that will choke on the real meat of the message. I once read that the limit of any pastor is 100 people to truly handle. Hence 1 associate pastor for every other 50-100. let alone going to the elders etc... PLUS if GOD does decide to preside during the service... (ITS HIS BODY which I pray HE DOES) if the people are not taught up how to recognize HIS presence the people will not know how to act or react to HIS move of the spirit. Hence miss the move of His spirit and in effect making the church useless because no one can agree on anything... and in effect becoming salt-less.

so here lies the real dilemma... how much money is worth missing GOD? YOU cannot serve GOD and money both, can you prosper - yes... GODS king, if we are broke what does that say about HIS kingship? We are His representatives here. BUT its so much more... there's so much more...

something Mike Huckabee once said when He was a baptist pastor... "When I signed on to be the pastor of the church I thought I was signing on to be the Capitan of a battleship but as time went on I realized the only thing the people wanted me to be was the pastor of the love boat." TO be a pastor is to lead for he is the example to his congregation as well as his community. Train us up and get us out there doing the work of the GOSPEL... if we are not trained right what and know how to stand on our own 2 feet and to say NO to the devil NO to the powers that be... and not faultier... what GOOD can we truly be?


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
12/5/2007 6:12 pm

    Quoting tikcufan33:
    There's a much deeper meaning to this questionnaire than just do we like or dislike Joel Osteen's message for I know from pastor buddies of mine that his outreach ministry is awesome, he has a great heart and is a firm believer.

    as with anything with GOD without faith there's no way to please GOD. As with any teaching we need to get to the meat of the subject if you intend to survive let alone thrive in the environment. GOD says my people die for lack of knowledge. Cannot muddle down the message and hope that the people will know how to stand firm when the stones are cast. YOU become an instant target for the enemy when you stand against his ways and if you don't know who you are... you don't know the power thats at your prayer fingertips. Joel as with every other pastor will be held accountable for the sheep that he has been given to tend. If you remember the parable in mark where Jesus said about the 3 men he gave 10/5/1 tallens to for those who much is given much is expected.

    I have never really been fond of big churches. TO many people come there to hear a pretty message and go... no accountability. those who really want to get feed cannot because their are to many babies there that will choke on the real meat of the message. I once read that the limit of any pastor is 100 people to truly handle. Hence 1 associate pastor for every other 50-100. let alone going to the elders etc... PLUS if GOD does decide to preside during the service... (ITS HIS BODY which I pray HE DOES) if the people are not taught up how to recognize HIS presence the people will not know how to act or react to HIS move of the spirit. Hence miss the move of His spirit and in effect making the church useless because no one can agree on anything... and in effect becoming salt-less.

    so here lies the real dilemma... how much money is worth missing GOD? YOU cannot serve GOD and money both, can you prosper - yes... GODS king, if we are broke what does that say about HIS kingship? We are His representatives here. BUT its so much more... there's so much more...

    something Mike Huckabee once said when He was a baptist pastor... "When I signed on to be the pastor of the church I thought I was signing on to be the Capitan of a battleship but as time went on I realized the only thing the people wanted me to be was the pastor of the love boat." TO be a pastor is to lead for he is the example to his congregation as well as his community. Train us up and get us out there doing the work of the GOSPEL... if we are not trained right what and know how to stand on our own 2 feet and to say NO to the devil NO to the powers that be... and not faultier... what GOOD can we truly be?
Thanks for posting!!!
I like the way you think...
GBY!!!
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Rebekah06 69F

12/6/2007 5:00 pm

My best friend works for Lakewood. It is a wonderful place to work.
I wanted to let you know that Lakewood also treats there employess good.
Blessings, Rebekah

We are designed like God-- fully human, fully alive.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
12/6/2007 6:16 pm

    Quoting Rebekah06:
    My best friend works for Lakewood. It is a wonderful place to work.
    I wanted to let you know that Lakewood also treats there employess good.
    Blessings, Rebekah
A great fact to know... Thank you!!! I think it would be awesome to work a 3 year interm at Lakewood...

Blessings to you!!!
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Rebekah06 69F

12/7/2007 5:52 pm

Your Welcome. Let me know if their is anything I can do to help you out.
Blessings, Rebekah

We are designed like God-- fully human, fully alive.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
12/7/2007 9:22 pm

    Quoting Rebekah06:
    Your Welcome. Let me know if their is anything I can do to help you out.
    Blessings, Rebekah
Keep me in your prayers.... I am praying for you....

Ty Rebekah!!!
GBY!!!
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael


Rebekah06 69F

12/10/2007 4:03 pm

Will do.
Thanks for your prayers.
Blessings, Rebekah

We are designed like God-- fully human, fully alive.


Michael33333 55M
3045 posts
12/10/2007 5:14 pm

    Quoting Rebekah06:
    Will do.
    Thanks for your prayers.
    Blessings, Rebekah
And if you hear of a opening there.... let me know.

I know you will recognize the origion of my newest post... and so will MomT... it comes from one of our favorite TVE's...

GBY!!!
michael

Let the SON shine!!!
michael