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ON SPEAKING IN TONGUES? Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13  -10: "Beareth all things, believe th all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." He appeared to predict, in about the middle of the 1st century, that at some time in his future, people will no longer prophecy or speak in tongues. There appears to be no consensus on when this will or has ended. It appeared that the apostles would retain the gifts they possessed until their deaths. And those the apostles laid hands on would retain those gifts until their own deaths. History showed the charismatic gifts including prophecy, tongues, healing, and others in their own day, some 50 years or more after the death of the last apostle, but were continuing to practice the gifts until their own deaths. Pentecostals and Charismatics generally believe that speaking in tongues today is as much a gift of the Holy Spirit as it was during the time of the apostles. Some non-Pentecostals believe that the various gifts of the spirit, including the gift of tongues, ended with the death of the last apostle or shortly thereafter. I have participated in the services of both groups and I believe where it might be possible, with interpretation which was a biblical requirement (which rarely is present) for this phenomena to happen, however, I have never spoken in tongues and don't feel that I ever will. Perhaps some of each group may like to shed some reasons as to why they feel the way they do. I do find it a most interesting subject as to why we have these gifts today. LET'S HAVE A PEACEFUL DISCUSSION  (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯) |
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Sherri, are you saying that this part of scripture is where Paul is supposed to be predicting that these things will end? "but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease" If that were the case, then wouldn't this part have to be included as well? "whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away" After all, it is all in the same sentence. I believe it is obvious that he did not mean that knowledge would end, why then would he mean that prophecy and tongues would end? It is bad enough when Christians take one verse out of context and try to make it say what they wish for it to say, but when they start taking one part of a sentence within a verse and try to make it say one thing, while the rest of the sentence says something else, then it becomes completely absurd. Dear sister, I will return with more information for you but had to begin with this as it just jumps out at one as being such an obvious error. Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand 
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1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12¶ For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. 27¶ Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. Sherri, here I have quoted the chapter just prior to the one which you have quoted. I apologize for it's length but I do not wish for anything to be taken out of context. Please note that I have bolded several areas where the gifts have been listed, amongst them being prophecy and tongues. There are many gifts and I guess that my question would be, why would God give gifts and then take them away or why would He take some away and not others? I ask this question especially since the Bible tells us that He is the same yesterday, today and forever. I wrote the following just yesterday in one of the magazine posts. Not everybody is given the gift of tongues, just like not everybody is called to be a minister, or a missionary. It is not confusing at all if folks will just read what the Bible has to say. If you have the gift, Praise the Lord, use it, if you don't, Praise the Lord, 'cause He's given you something different. Stop worrying about what you do or don't have, stop worrying about what your neighbor does or doesn't have and just go about doing the work that the Father has given you to do. Stop worrying about whether it's real or if it's "for" the church today. Stop quibbling about who's right and who's wrong, who's better than who. We are all parts of the same body and we are all necessary. We each have our own work to do and we each need tools that fit the job we have been given. The foot doesn't need glasses and the eyes don't need shoes so if your a foot stop worrying about how glasses work, whether they should or shouldn't be used, how they should be used, if they were meant for todays church or just for the early church. Tend to things that the foot needs to be tending to and let the eyes worry about the glasses. 1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Here again, in the chapter after the one you quoted is Paul saying that speaking in tongues is not to be forbidden. This is after His discourse on orderlyness of speaking in tongues for prophecy and the interpretation thereof. Ro 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.Ro 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. This is another place where tongues comes into play, where the Holy Spirit takes over in prayer and speaks directly to God the Father on our behalf, communing with Him what is in our soul that we are unable to find the words to communicate ourselves. The groanings that cannot be uttered are "tongues" which we know not and cannot know because we are human and it is a heavenly language, one that is of God. Again, I apoligize for the length of this post, but I wanted to give you my take on this issue as fully and clearly as I could. I do believe that there are those who put too much emphasis on speaking in tongues just as there are those who deny this gift as well as others as being authentic for the church today, if that is the right word to use. Once again, I can only recommend that each person must search the scripture for themselves, seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit for the correct interpretation that is applicable to them. God bless and keep you, sis. Your sister in Christ's love, Cecilia Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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8/11/2006 5:04 pm |
I do speak in tongues.
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8/11/2006 5:16 pm |
Sherri, are you saying that this part of scripture is where Paul is supposed to be predicting that these things will end? "but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease" If that were the case, then wouldn't this part have to be included as well? "whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away" After all, it is all in the same sentence. I believe it is obvious that he did not mean that knowledge would end, why then would he mean that prophecy and tongues would end? It is bad enough when Christians take one verse out of context and try to make it say what they wish for it to say, but when they start taking one part of a sentence within a verse and try to make it say one thing, while the rest of the sentence says something else, then it becomes completely absurd. Dear sister, I will return with more information for you but had to begin with this as it just jumps out at one as being such an obvious error.
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8/11/2006 5:17 pm |
I do speak in tongues. 
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8/11/2006 5:28 pm |
Yep, I do that too! There is not need to say more. Redbird said it all. God bless you sister.
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8/11/2006 5:45 pm |
It ends when he returns...he hasnt come back yet...thats all that means. I cor 14 26-28 talks of tounges as a prayer language and to be done between the person and God
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8/11/2006 10:57 pm |
I grew up in a church environment where there were many "revival meetings" full of speaking in tongues and healings. And nearly every Sunday evening during the worship service someone would give a word in tongues and after a short silence someone else would interpret it. It was usually something edifying to the congregation and sometimes it was an admonition. Very rarely would anyone not interpret and when it did happen it was probably because the person who received the interpretation was too timid to give it. I've also seen people get "slain in the spirit", my mother being one, and I've seen intercessory prayer in the spirit. I received the baptism in the Spirit when I was 13 at a youth group meeting, and it was a very quiet but awesome experience (my brother received his the week before and everybody knew it). I used to pray in tongues frequently, especially when I couldn't come up with words to express myself. Unfortunately, over the years I've gotten rather cold in that area and no longer use my gift. Shame on me. It can be frightening for someone who has never seen it, but believe me, it is real. None of this "untiemybowtie" junk from people who don't understand it and choose to ridicule it. It's real. Personally, I think the Spirit falls on those who are open and willing to receive Him and are not inhibited or fearful to use it, or unbelieving. And I don't think it has ceased because its usage is no longer needed. I don't attend a Charismatic church anymore, but I'd be willing to bet it is still used in them, especially in the Pentecostal Church of God denomination.
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8/12/2006 1:03 am |
Yes, I do, at home in my alone prayer time...
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I have never spoken in tongues. (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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8/12/2006 4:13 am |
The Spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets...this means we are free to choose whether or not we walk in a gift. We arent condemned if we do not. We just may miss a blessing is all Interpeting a toungue spoken in church is much different than one that is spoken that is a known dialect, yet one that you do not know. If I went to China, and spoke in Chinees to a person and told them about God, even though I did not know Chineese that would be one aspect of one of the kinds of tounges. It would take a step of faith because you would not know what you are saying and what you said probably would not make sense to you. It would be the Holy Spirit speaking through you in a known dialect Now in a Church setting the type of toungue Paul is speaking about is like when the fellowship is in worship and all becomes quiet. A person may speak out loudly in an utterance of the Holy Spirit that is not a known Language. If no one speaks a discerning interpetation then that person who spoke that is told to refrain. He also speaks of things done orderly. Why? For the purpose of not having mass confusion. The reason for worship and sharing is to build up the saints and also to open up non believers to the presense of God in a fellowship. I have heard people speak out in toungues and I knew it was of God and done in an orderly way and sure enough there was an interpetation. I have also had experiences where I knew it was not. They are not condemned for doing that, but usually a pastor will confirm what you are sensing in your spirit. Ok now, the prayer language is the Holy Spirit praying through you. It can be a rebuking thing where God is rebuking something spiritual going on that should not be going on...such as telling demonic spirits to leave. You can pray in the spirit if you are confused about something and then you get a discerning word from God because of praying in the Spirit. Ok...in a Church setting it is ok to sing in the spirit durring worship...meaning singing in your prayer language It is ok to pray over someone in the spirit in a fellowship gathering. What Paul is talking about is people misusing the gift in the sense of the whole congregation when there is a silence and the spirit is there and instead of doing so by the urging of the Spirit, they just do it anyway. Then there is no flow with the spirit. People get out of sorts because they "Know". I hope this helps These are just gifts Sheri. They are for today and its not rocket science, it is just a part of the Holy Spirit in a believers life. To be honest, he will give this to anyone. But he also does it in his way and his timing prompted by his leading. Too many people overlook the blessing and significance in this and yet also too many people make a big deal out of the gifts they do operate in. That gate swings both ways. I believe every believer has the same Holy Spirit in them. I believe as needed every believer can operate in any of the gifts as needed if they have a willing heart and are letting Jesus live through them and not them living for Jesus. Paul let Jesus live through him. Jesus let the Father live through him.....Once again the Spirit of the Prophets is subject to the prophets is at work here as it always is. All of God is natural to the Christian. It should be.We try and sensationalize the natural which is unatural to unbelievers but a part of our heiritage as believers in Jesus Chriat
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Yes, I do speak in tongues.... Praise the Lord for this gift! I speak them fairly timidly though in whispers during prayertime by myself and sometimes at our service in a non charismatic church. Always whispering.. I receiving the blessed Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the tongues during the European Conference of Women Aglow November 2005. And received this scripture with it: Ezekiel 36:26-27 the next day... Sometimes I wonder what I am saying.. sometimes i am only repeating sounds... sometimes I think that the Spirit invites me to understand; then He speaks to my heart. In moments of deep praise & worship I use tongues and also at times when i walk the street late at night to chase away fear... At times I feel the Spirit speak to us so clearly during prayertime at our Church at tuesdaynights that I start my whisperprayers and receive visions and prayerpoints that are important to Him, because He would send the same prayerpoints to many others in the room... When used in prayer and worship I can feel His Presence hovering over us and for me, I come closer His Presence and His nearness. Which is absolutely bliss!! Halleluyah \O/ Shalom, Josetta
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8/12/2006 11:16 am |
I understood the whole thing...and that happens WHEN JESUS RETURNS A little cart before the horse lesson to you. Jesus was glorified and ressurected before any of these Churches were formed. The Holy Spirit was not given until after Jesus went to be with the father.... OK...Time span.....after he went to the Father this scripture is written. And although it is important to understand a whole scripture and not part of it..... "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." What part of he that is perfect has come is escaping YOU Go back to the pits of hell religious ignorant spirit! LOL...wow the truth has taken the color out of your face hasnt it?
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I must be in the minority. Is anyone aware that speaking in tongues actually became fashionable around 1901? (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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Are you all aware that speaking in tongues as you are describing it has only been fashionable since about 1901 and it has been growing strong since? In Biblical times it was the least important gift and now it is most sought after gift. 1 Corinthians 14:5, 12:27-31 In Biblical times it was a sign to unbelievers and now it is suppose to be a sign to believers. 1 Corinthians 14:22 More later. (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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8/13/2006 4:50 am |
Sheri if they are in the upper room and the Holy Spirit falls on them as toungues of fire and they are all speaking at the same time...what sense does this make? Because it was all going on at the same time. It would be confusion. Yes there was confusion as it happened because it had never happened before. What happened afterwards? They went out and preached in tounges which is totally seperate. First they were empowered Second they went out and preached. Receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not preaching. You have no clue what you are talking about and neither does whoever you listen to. It isnt a big deal but ignorance is really annoying. Why would Paul say to go do something in private? Personal edification...so it has value.
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8/13/2006 4:52 am |
Pete.....no I wont bother...I cant deal with ignorance today
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So it is my understanding that we are to believe that the gifts of the spirit are all passed away? That would include all of these: Romans 12:6-8 I Corinthians 12:8-10 Prophecy The Word of Wisdom Ministry The Word of Knowledge Teaching Faith Exhortation Healing Giving Miracles Ruling Prophecy Showing Mercy Discerning of Spirits Speaking in Tongues Interpretation of Tongues I Cor 12:28 Apostles Prophets Teachers Miracles Healing Helps Governments Diversities of Tongues God forbid! What then is our hope if faith has passed away? Why then do we strive if teaching is gone and helps and mercy are no more? We fool only ourselves if wisdom and knowledge are forever taken from us. I ask again, how can it be that God would give and then take away? Is there then the possibility that somewhere down the road He will change His mind and take away the grace that He gave? That He will reclaim the sacrifice of His son? Let it never be!!!! God is the same, yesterday, today and forever. His word never fails. We are His and His gifts are ours, today just as yesterday, for our benefit and for His glory. It is not my wish to cause anyone to accept what they do not choose to accept for God reveals unto each according to His will. But I do wish for this condemnation of those of us who do accept, believe in and use the gifts of the Holy Spirit to cease. We must remember that we are all a part of the body of Christ and we are all different. We must accept the differences between us when it comes to things such as this, that are not unto condemnation. They are not a hindrance to salvation and this strife between us brethren takes our focus off of our obligations as Christians to witness to the unsaved not to mention the fact that it causes the unsaved to believe that we are no different than they in that we argue and fight all the time. God bless all of you. I love you all. Your sister In Christs love, Cecilia Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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i occassionally pray in tongues as the SPIRIT leads me.
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8/13/2006 5:14 pm |
Are you all aware that speaking in tongues as you are describing it has only been fashionable since about 1901 and it has been growing strong since? In Biblical times it was the least important gift and now it is most sought after gift. 1 Corinthians 14:5, 12:27-31 In Biblical times it was a sign to unbelievers and now it is suppose to be a sign to believers. 1 Corinthians 14:22 More later.
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8/13/2006 6:35 pm |
Let's all do a test. When you or if you do speak in tongues per the charasmatic type- record it. Then transcribe it phonetically onto paper or even into your 'puter. Since you don't need to translate if it is done in private- no big deal. But if you DO have the ability to translate, copy that down too. The phonetic transcriptions are then the exact "tongue" being spoken in written form. If we can do this, we can indeed prove that the tongues are real. Or NOT. "Though I speak with the tongues of men or of angels..." If it isn't a known human tongue- it must be that of angels. Or NOT. We can end this controversy in short order. It shouldn't take long to record and transcribe. End the controversy. PROVE YOUR TONGUE SPEAKING IS ABSOLUTELY REAL. Or not.  Easy eh?
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8/13/2006 8:04 pm |
Here is what I have learned after years of much study and prayer: Gift Of Tongues In Context Of History And Bible A Private Prayer Language The Gifts Of The Holy Spirit The Misunderstood Gift I hope this helps answer some of the questions out there about this particular gift of the Holy Spirit. Remember that God - not me - is the final authority on this topic and that is why we should rely upon the Bible for our information rather than the teachings of any denomination or movement. Bryan
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8/13/2006 9:37 pm |
I was a little concerned about how you mentioned that the holy spirit may take you over kind of like a possesion.. It's not like that.. God's Spirit dwells in me regardless of if I speak in tongues and the Bible says that I don't know how to pray and it's the Holy Spirit that does the prayin.. geez Bible is not upstairs..will be quiet until i have scripture.. it's amazing that God would choose to dwell in these broken vessels... that's what im thinking yes speak in tongues..only in private since i have never felt the need to speak outwardly and i have never seen a prophetic utterance as described in acts.. but i have seen a whole lot shakin goin on... I don't think it's judging when you say that a non believer might be freaked out by it so it shouldn't be done in public..anyway God bless
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8/14/2006 3:56 am |
I was a little concerned about how you mentioned that the holy spirit may take you over kind of like a possesion.. It's not like that.. God's Spirit dwells in me regardless of if I speak in tongues and the Bible says that I don't know how to pray and it's the Holy Spirit that does the prayin.. geez Bible is not upstairs..will be quiet until i have scripture.. it's amazing that God would choose to dwell in these broken vessels... that's what im thinking yes speak in tongues..only in private since i have never felt the need to speak outwardly and i have never seen a prophetic utterance as described in acts.. but i have seen a whole lot shakin goin on... I don't think it's judging when you say that a non believer might be freaked out by it so it shouldn't be done in public..anyway God bless "He must increase, but I must decrease." [John 3:30] "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." [Galatians 2:20] As you surrender more and more to the Holy Spirit, people will see Jesus living through you rather than yourself. That should be the goal of every believer.
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8/14/2006 1:58 pm |
I do speak in Tongues privately. I do not speal loud in ther churches because I have not the gift of interpretation. and I do not speak loud in tongues while using the public bus or the metro, because God doesn t lead me to do so. but I do speak in tounges .
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8/14/2006 4:15 pm |
Sheri said: "I have heard that some Pentecostals, particularly those from the United Pentecostal Church, share the common belief of tongues. They will speak "in a language that no man understands or interprets and it is normally spoken in private, as your are saying." I have never attended any "United Pentecostal Church". I tend to think someone could understand my "language" because it sounds like a "language" but I have not a clue. When I got the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" it was real and it was life changing and the Lord did a new thing in my life...I even looked different after that. My countenance changed. I don't sit in meetings rolling around on the floor, barking or growling or twitching or laughing uncontrollably and falling out of my chair, like you seem to be thinking we all do.  I attended a meeting such as this one time and I was not a participant and I actually left, the anointing was not there, it was demonic. I can tell the difference.When the true manifestations of the spirit are working in a meeting, there is order and people are not acting out in these ways, uncontrollably, etc. I have been in places when there was a prophetic word and an interpretation. But these people don't start rolling around on the floor or anything like that. sigh.
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I speak in tongues in my private prayers.......... to edify myself and my spirit. I speak in tongues whenever I want to.......... that's my other way of communicating with God............... and only God understand what I really mean. God sees my heart, more than my words. " We are fearfully and wonderfully made." Psalm 139:14a
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Sheri, one of the best books I've ever read on this subject is by Pastor Jack Hayford. It's called The Beauty of Spiritual Language. He deals with all the scriptures and so many areas that are so widely hotly debated in the various camps. Like Levs and FaithGirl4Him, I am one who prays in tongues with what I refer to as my prayer language. I do it at will...and I will to often. Why? The answer might surprise you. In fact, here's an idea for a future post: WHY pray in tongues? I'll give you a little hint as to why I do as a preview: Because I consistently find I receive wisdom and answers from the Lord when I do. Can I somehow prove that? No. No more than I can say it didn't rain today because I prayed it wouldn't. In other words, how could I know it wouldn't have rained regardless of whether I prayed or not. No, I'm talking about a pattern that I've observed. Therefore, maybe the question should be, why wouldn't every believer want to further consider such scriptures as Eph 6 where Paul said to pray in the spirit will all manner of prayers. And yes, I refer to praying in the spirit as a personal prayer language. And, yes, I know that Bryan and others here don't believe in that. Oh well...I'm not here to settle a debate that has been raging for decades. Just thought I'd throw this out to you since you're curious. Bottom line: There's a real good reason why the enemy fights this wonderful gift: It messes up his play house. For me, I want everything Jesus died to give me, and I need every possible spiritual tool that is available, and having and using a prayer language is one of the most powerful tools for prayer and intercession there is--at least, that's my most humble opinion!
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8/15/2006 7:37 pm |
I have been in at least one church where the gift of tongues has been used to bolster a kind of spiritual egotism. (Think, "My Holy Spirit is better than your Holy Spirit.") I think it's important to remember that tongues is just one of the spiritual gifts discussed in the Bible. And, that scripture tells us that not every gift is given to every person. Most important is to remember that the greatist gift is love.
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Marcos, you said it so very well. This was what I was trying to get at in my earlier post and didn't do nearly as good a job of saying as you. (smile) Sheri, it's not about bragging about being able to say that I have a prayer language or have been used by the Lord to minister a public tongue along with the interpretation--and I do that quite often when leading worship. I don't "brag" that I have two arms and two legs; it's a part of God's "equipping" me. It's part of His design. What I and many others believe the scriptures to teach is that the Holy Spirit enables someone who has receive "pray in the spirit" (in tongues). And as Marcos says, my Christian experience would not be the same without it. Yesterday, I had another example of why I try to pray in the spirit (in my prayer language) as often as possible. I do incredibly challenging mental work as a computer programmer. I had hit a wall with some logic and was getting no where. I left work on Tuesday with NO idea how to solve the issue. I purposed to pray in my prayer language a LOT that evening and on the way to work on Wednesday. (Paul says when we pray in the spirit, we are speaking mysteries. Some interpret that to be hidden wisdom....and that's exactly what I needed: God's wisdom.) In a matter of less than a half hour, I felt certain "nudgings" of the Holy Spirit as I began to add logic. Went into a certain part of a program that I had not intended to work with, inserted two lines of code, and voila! It worked! I could have sat there and cried, it was so wonderful. God has done this with me countless times. This is just ONE example of WHY I agree so heartily with Marcos. There are so many more. Blessings to you and all who read this, Sharon
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I appreciate all of the various opinions and shared experiences of the workings of our Lord's person the Holy Spirit and would like to share what I believe is true for my life. This is what I believe to be true from scriptures: The new life with all the gifts of the spirit of tongues does not begin from baptism, but rather the believer will give and show evidences of the old ways going away and Christs ways showing through in the form of good fruits; these being love, mercy, etc. I believe we must have faith and truly believe that Christ did exactly what he said he did when he shed his blood for the atonement of all of our sins. The Holy Sprit is God, the third Person of the Trinity. The Holy Spirit is a person, not a force or energy field. He comforts, grieves, reproves, convicts, guides, teaches, and fills Christians. He is not the Father, nor is he the Son, Jesus Christ. Salvation is by God's grace, not by an individual's good works. Salvation must be received by faith. People must believe in their hearts that Jesus died for their sins and physically rose again, which is the assurance of forgiveness and resurrection of the body. It's really that simple nothing more and nothing less. Now you know completely what I believe. (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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8/17/2006 3:50 pm |
I think you mean mumbling when you have had one too many. I remember your comment on Maria's post.
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8/18/2006 11:31 am |
ASSHOLE
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8/18/2006 7:03 pm |
Sheri to answer this question:- I need to ask this curious question? Why do those that heal feel that Jesus needs a conduit? Doesn't His Holy Spirit already indwell in each of us. It seems to me that the Holy Spirit being Omnipotent would heal the person himself and not need a sinful man to act as a conduit or mediary or medium or vessel. The Holy Spirit is the Comforter in times needed for healing. The answer follows, but first, allow my the indulgence of a personal story. Shortly after I confirmed my baby baptizim in 1984, the Dean of Suva Cathederal asked me to join the Committee on Stewardship. In my innocence, I asked what Stewardhip was. He gently explained in brief. Next Sunday, as I arrived for church he met me at the door and presented me with an inscribed Bible [which I still use for minisrty today]and said Please read and learn. If I lecture, you'll learn in part, but read & study for your self and you'll learn much more. He was right and that is now how I like to teach. Give my students guided research; participation teaches far better than having someone do the work for you. Now to answer your question; we heal by laying on hands because God ordained it that way. Have you noticed in your bible studies that God very rarelly tells why. I know that we are conduits coz we can feel the power of the Spirit like a heatwave move through our hands into the patient. Ex 29:10 “Bring the bull to the front of the Tent of Meeting, and Aaron and his sons shall lay their hands on its head. Lev 16:21 He is to lay both hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the wickedness and rebellion of the Israelites–all their sins–and put them on the goat’s head. He shall send the goat away into the desert in the care of a man appointed for the task. Dt 34:9 Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom because Moses had laid his hands on him. So the Israelites listened to him and did what the LORD had commanded Moses. Nu 8:10 You are to bring the Levites before the LORD, and the Israelites are to lay their hands on them. Nu 27:23 Then he laid his hands on him and commissioned him, as the LORD instructed through Moses. Mt 19:13 Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them. Matt 19:15 When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there. Mk 5: 23 and pleaded earnestly with him, “My little daughter is dying. Please come and put your hands on her so that she will be healed and live.” Mk 6:5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. Mk 8: 23 He took the blind man by the hand and led him outside the village. When he had spit on the man’s eyes and put his hands on him, Jesus asked, “Do you see anything?” Mk 16:18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” 4:40 When the sun was setting, the people brought to Jesus all who had various kinds of sickness, and laying his hands on each one, he healed them. Lk 13:13 Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God. Acts 6:6 They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them. Acts 8:17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 9:12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.” Acts 13:3 So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off. Acts 28:8 His father was sick in bed, suffering from fever and dysentery. Paul went in to see him and, after prayer, placed his hands on him and healed him. 1 Tim 4:14 Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you. Heb 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2 instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.
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8/18/2006 9:18 pm |
I reckon the why is that God wants us to be a part of His works; miracles or otherwise; is because He is the Perfect Loving Encouraging Father and wants to include His children in all He does, as far as possible.
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8/19/2006 4:59 am |
Yes ... English. You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
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I've been a silent observer in blogland for awhile now. It's not really what "I" want but He's kicking me out of the nest. Dang it all anyway. Here's my 1 cent worth. (I'm keeping the other penny for when I'm blasted and totally misunderstood.) I have been on both sides of this issue. I do know the scriptures that support or deny both. I can relate to what Sheri and many are saying. I spoke in tongues so I can also relate to and in no way discount what others are saying or believe. Boy I'll try to not make this a dissertation. It's hard to put it all down in mere words but will give it a go. Help me Holy Spirit! I can still speak in tongues but as of late the Lord is leading me into simplicity. I, for one, kinda like understanding what I'm praying about. I don't speak in tongues. I CHOOSE not to. He lead me to this place. Do I think it's of the devil? Nah. Do I think it's necessary for that power and wisdom. Nah. I used to think that by praying in tongues the "devil" couldn't hear me so couldn't hinder my prayers etc. etc. Some hold to that I reckon. For me PERSONALLY I know God knows the mysteries of my heart. My needs, desires, petitions etc. If the Holy Spirit leads me to pray for someone-I pray. If I need wisdom-I ask for it. Discernment? I ask. ASK-SEEK-KNOCK eh? Scripture is and will always be subject to man's interpretation. Sure we're to read the Word but somehow I can't really visualize little children sitting at the feet of Jesus with a bible in one hand and a concordance in the other. Guess what I'm trying to say here is take it to HIM. I did and this is where He brought me. He will guide and lead you into ALL TRUTH. His truth-not our perception of it. No right or wrong here IMO. We are all at a different place in our walk. What's good for the goose is not always what's good for the gander type thing. My walk with the Lord is every bit as powerful IF not moreso then it was when I spoke in tongues. For me it's a non issue. Not something that should be a platform for division. For those who really believe in tongues-go for it! For me a simple "HELP me Lord!" seems to work wonders. When I don't know how to pray for things as I ought I tell Him that. HE KNOWS! So much more here but really do hate LOOOOOOONG posts. I still have my penny too! Question-Can we standard members use smilies?
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Me Again-hehe. Just got back from a walk and was pondering. I love to ponder. He's leading me to start a blog with this title. MAN Lord I don't wanna. Oh well eh? Anyway according to scripture praying in tongues edifies self. Aren't we supposed to deny self? Crucify it. Granted we all need encouragement. If we humble ourselves in the sight of the Lord HE will lift us up. David encouraged himself in the Lord. Just an after thought here---I still have my penny. I am by no means trying to belittle speaking in tongues or bash anyone. Just pondering-lol. I liked what you had to say StrGzr. It makes me think of the times when unexpectantly I engage in a converstion-I open my mouth-The Holy Spirit fills it. At the end of the conversation I have no clue what I just said or how it all came about. I do know it was HIM though and not me doing the talking. A form of tongues I reckon eh? Fun when it's all over but definately a mystery. It's like "WOW God where did that come from?" The person I was conversing with however did understand me-hehe. This is me leaving again!
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8/19/2006 2:31 pm |
I used to hold the belief that the gifts of the Spirit ended with the cannon of Scripture. But as I study more early church writings, I find that the gifts ended a little after that, but they indeed ended. These folks who are giving you a hard time over this have not done any studying and refuse to look at the facts. It seems the only gift they can "prove" is the babbling that goes on in some churches that is just that; babbling. You can take a tongue speaker and tape what they say, then get three so called "interpreters" and have them interpret it separately; you will end up with three different interpretations. Works every time! It is funny that the most useless of the gifts is the one so many have, yet we have not one gifted with the "tongues of nations" as the Apostles. I thought this would interest you. In our first survey we established that according to orthodox Christian writers, the charismatic gifts including tongues continued well into the middle or second half of the second century well after the close of the New Testament canon, well after the death of the last apostle, and well after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. In our second survey we established the rise of counterfeit gifts in the latter half of the second century AD, where they coexisted with the authentic gifts in the orthodox churches. We also established that these counterfeit gifts (which were practiced by both Gnostic and other heretical gifts such as the Montanists) differed dramatically in quality and character from those of the orthodox Church. In this third historic survey, we will examine the dramatic change in content that took place regarding the gifts after the first few centuries AD, particularly by the fourth century. Keep in mind that the following section of quotes come from authors who were writing at a time when the Church had been formally "Romanized" by the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. Notice the view on the charismatic gifts expressed by these authors despite the fact that the Roman Church has historically been an institution, which embraces the miraculous including the miraculous power of relics. Augustine 354-430 AD "How then, brethren, because he that is baptized in Christ, and believes on Him, does not now speak in the tongues of all nations, are we not to believe that he has received the Holy Ghost? God forbid that our heart should be tempted by this faithlessness... Why is it that no man speaks in the tongues of all nations? Because the Church itself now speaks in the tongues of all nations. Before, the Church was in one nation, where it spoke in the tongues of all. By speaking then in the tongues of all, it signified what was to come to pass; that by growing among the nations, it would speak in the tongues of all." (Augustine, "Ten Homilies on the First Epistle of John) Here we find Augustine embarking on an early attempt to explain why men no longer spoke in tongues when they believed. According to Augustine's view, men no longer spoke in tongues because the Church now contained men of all nations and languages and so the Church itself "spoke in all tongues." Now, our assessment of the validity of Augustine's explanation is not particularly relevant. What is relevant is that Augustine understood as a foundational fact to this very passage that tongues were no longer occurring by his day. And from this point forward we will see how the statements of Church authors likewise shifted away from asserting that the gifts continued in that day (as was the case with Irenaeus and Justin Martyr) and began instead to explain why the gifts were no longer occurring. John Chrysostom 347-407 AD John Chrysostom, the bishop of Constantinople, who lived from 347-407 AD also taught that the gifts had passed away. When commenting on 1 Corinthians 12, he writes, "This whole place is very obscure: but the obscurity is produced by our ignorance of the facts referred to and by their cessation, being such as then used to occur but now no longer take place. And why do they not happen now? Why look now, the cause too of the obscurity hath produced us again another question: namely, why did they then happen, and now do so no more?" Writing John Chrysostom struggles with the same question as Augustine, "why had the gifts passed away?" Once again, for the purposes of this survey, what is significant is the fact that Augustine and John Chrysostom are in agreement that the gifts were no longer occurring. Gregory the Great 600 AD When commenting on Mark 16:17, Gregory the Great wrote, "Is it so, my brethren, that because ye do not these signs, ye do not believe? On the contrary, they were necessary, in the beginning of the church; for, that faith might grow, it required miracles to cherish it withal; just as when we plant shrubs, we water them until we ace them thrive in the ground, and as aeon as they are well rooted we cease our irrigation.'' Here we see Gregory the Great attempting to answer the same question posed above by Augustine and John Chrysostom. Like Augustine, Gregory the Great is attempting to reassure believers that they were saved despite the fact that they did not speak in tongues or prophecy.
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8/19/2006 3:00 pm |
Yes Rod, That would be a poop dispenser.
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8/19/2006 5:12 pm |
Sheri, one of the best books I've ever read on this subject is by Pastor Jack Hayford. It's called The Beauty of Spiritual Language. He deals with all the scriptures and so many areas that are so widely hotly debated in the various camps. Like Levs and FaithGirl4Him, I am one who prays in tongues with what I refer to as my prayer language. I do it at will...and I will to often. Why? The answer might surprise you. In fact, here's an idea for a future post: WHY pray in tongues? I'll give you a little hint as to why I do as a preview: Because I consistently find I receive wisdom and answers from the Lord when I do. Can I somehow prove that? No. No more than I can say it didn't rain today because I prayed it wouldn't. In other words, how could I know it wouldn't have rained regardless of whether I prayed or not. No, I'm talking about a pattern that I've observed. Therefore, maybe the question should be, why wouldn't every believer want to further consider such scriptures as Eph 6 where Paul said to pray in the spirit will all manner of prayers. And yes, I refer to praying in the spirit as a personal prayer language. And, yes, I know that Bryan and others here don't believe in that. Oh well...I'm not here to settle a debate that has been raging for decades. Just thought I'd throw this out to you since you're curious. Bottom line: There's a real good reason why the enemy fights this wonderful gift: It messes up his play house. For me, I want everything Jesus died to give me, and I need every possible spiritual tool that is available, and having and using a prayer language is one of the most powerful tools for prayer and intercession there is--at least, that's my most humble opinion!  Elizabeth
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8/19/2006 6:25 pm |
Sheri: For the record, I have never, ever heard any Pentacostals or Baptists or anybody EXCEPT ON HERE say that those who didn't have the Baptism of the HOly Spirit and especially the speaking in tongues part, would GO TO HELL!!!! That is just crazy, really.... I've gone to lots of different church's, to listen to the teaching or participate in the awsome worship services and I can't even recall any Pastors preaching that either....the Lord is MORE gracious than that.... There was something I've been told now for years, which I would love to share here... and it is this.... The Holy Spirit is always a gentleman....... Let me say that once again......... The Holy Spirit is ALWAYS a gentleman. Would a gentleman tell you that you would be going to hell for not speaking in tongues? love you, sister....
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8/19/2006 6:29 pm |
but I forgot to say this, also... In the book of Joel, it specifically says that in the last days, God WILL pour out HIS spirit on ALL flesh.... .....and, that the young men shall prophecy and the old men shall dream dreams.... How will someone prophecy without the help of the Holy Spirit? If the giftings of the Holy Spirit were for then and not today, was JOEL lying to us ???? If Joel is lying to us, that means God's word is lying to us......
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8/19/2006 11:37 pm |
u can get one. I wrote that I do speak in tongues. this man answered I mayhave been drunken. if u like to play jokes than doit. but when we speak seriously about the scripture , you better watch your steps. Indeed I do speak in tongues and I m not sure if this commentaire of this man is kidding the Holy Spirit. Jesus forgave me all my sins ,.. and I have live d with prostitutes , cocaine dealers and ... andseen jail from inside. I know the power of God and forgiveness.. but do know what his man is talking about. and Thanks God .., it s not my bussiness.
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8/20/2006 1:17 am |
I know the power of God and of his forgiveness but really do not know this man and how he lives. and really ..thanks the Lord it snot my bussiness. its funny to see the so called Christians here .. they arelike the politicians.. u can rob the poor and lie ..but please don t use a word like this .. I m sorry that I have taken part in this discussion,.. because Ihave the impression that some people just like to ask and to talk but not want to learn... like soulstrippers. I can not delete my commentaries of my own.. only indescribeable can do this .. but its a good lesson for me not to share the secrets of God so publicly.. u know .. don t throw ur pearls amongst the swines..
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8/20/2006 1:23 am |
if u have any problems with the word swine .. pleasefeel free to complain yourself by the one who used this word first.. I mean go to Jesus and tell Him u dont think this expression is very upperclassy..
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8/20/2006 6:05 am |
Just keep it real There is nothing wrong with speaking in tongues, it's a gift. Some have it some don't. No big deal. Some have other gifts, some don't. I believe God gives us gifts for his purpose. He knows who can handle it and won't misuse it, and he knows who wants certain gifts just for selfish gains. I do speak in tongues, I asked for it and I got it. It's a wonderful thing for me in my life and walk with God. Well anyway God is still God and I am positively sure he knows what he is doing. Peace LYNNIE
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Continuing on with the History of Speaking in Tongues we see that preachers of the word of God claimed to speak in tongues but it was because they were speaking their native language to people who could not understand them because it was not their language, this is why they had to be trained and educated in the language they were going to preach. Here are two of many examples sighted in History. 1247 AD Thomas Aquinas [Thomas takes the same view as Augustine who took the unusual view that tongues continued, not in the supernatural, but the natural in that the different local churches all had a variety of members who spoke many languages by birth. Thus a person born to speak Japanese attending an English speaking church would be said to speak in tongues.] Thomas Aquinas (d. 1247) expressed his thoughts on the gift of tongues in his Summa Theological According to him the original purpose of this gift had been to enable the apostles "to teach all nations." It did not follow, however, that they had received a "gift of the knowledge of all languages." The gift of tongues was appropriate to the New Testament in the same way that prophecy had been proper to the Old. It directed men to God, remained "like a habit" in the person who possessed it, and could be used at will. Thomas suggested that men of his day could gain the same gift of tongues as appeared at Pentecost by assiduous linguistic study. (Aquinas, Summa Theologica (New York, 1947), a.7, I, 225; a.4, I, 1138; a.1, II, 1919- a.2-14, II, 1920; a.1, II, 1929.) (The Charismatic Movement, 1975, Michael P. Hamilton, p 71) 1419 AD Vincent Ferrer The Dominican mission preacher Vincent Ferrer (d. 1419), known for many miracles, while preaching in Latin was often said to have been understood by "Greeks, Germans, Sardinians, Hungarians, and people of other nations," as if speaking their languages. (Annales Minorum seu trium ordinum a S. Francisco institutorum (Florence, 1931), II, 191.) (The Charismatic Movement, 1975, Michael P. Hamilton, p 71) Vincent Ferrer was especially famous for his prophetic gift and for the many miracles of healing which accompanied his evangelistic ministry. So great was his reputation that in the Netherlands an hour was set apart each day for the healing of the sick. (Acta sanctorum, Catholic Source, April I, 498f., 525.) (Perspectives on the New Pentecostalism, Spitter, Stanley M. Burgess, 1976, pp. 14-26) Similar references were made on behalf of Louis Bertrand and Vincent Ferrer in their respective bulls of canonization. The latter specifically explained the miracles and gifts of Ferrer in the light of Mark 16:17f. (Acta sanctorum, Catholic Source, October V, 48 1 for Bertrand; Acta sanctorum, Catholic Source, April I, 525 for Ferrer.) (Perspectives on the New Pentecostalism, Spitter, Stanley M. Burgess, 1976, pp. 14-26) The phenomenon of heteroglossolalia is reported in the ministry of St. Vincent Ferrer, who is said to have been understood by Greeks, Germans, Sardinians, and Hungarians as he preached in the Spanish of late medieval Valencia. His biographer, Peter Ranzano, also asserted that the isolated Britons of France, who understood only their own dialect, fully comprehended his teachings. (Acta sanctorum, Catholic Source, April I, 495.) (Perspectives on the New Pentecostalism, Spitter, Stanley M. Burgess, 1976, pp. 14-26) (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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1483-1546 Martin Luther I found this interesting because I started my religious education in the Lutheran Church. (Interesting that he got labled a Charasmatic by the early writers then they retracked their claim after checking out his writings. Sounds familiar when someone jumps to conclusions kinda like reporters jumping to conclusions before examing the facts.) Founder of Lutheran church Pentecostal historians have shown the same aversion to the primary records, with the result that the same stories are repeated again and again–usually without question– and mistakes once made are perpetuated and often compounded. For example, we read that both St. Augustine and Martin Luther spoke in tongues. (Carl Brumback, What Meaneth This? A Pentecostal Answer to a Pentecostal Question (Springfield, MO: Gospel Publishing House, 1947), pp. 91f. R. Leonard Carroll in The Clossolalia Phenomenon, ed. Wade H. Horton (Cleveland, TN: Pathway Press, 1966), p. 93, indicates that Luther was a charismatic. Other writers have made the same statement.) A careful study of their writings and of contemporary biographies, however, indicates that neither Augustine nor Luther had experiential knowledge of the subject. (Augustine, ' Homilies on the First Epistle of John," 6:10, The Nicene and PostNicene Fathers, ed. P. Schaff, First Series (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), VII, 497f. Martin Luther, Works, ed. Jaroslav J. Pelikan and Helmut T. Lehmann (St. Louis: Concordia,1955- ),XL, 142.) (Perspectives on the New Pentecostalism, Spitter, Stanley M. Burgess, 1976, pp. 10) (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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What does speaking in tongues do? Well, it gives control of your power of speech over to the Holy Spirit, the third Person of the Trinity. What does speech do? It’s the faculty by which we communicate with one another. It’s the glue that bonds society together, and the ability which sets us apart from the apes. Two people can stand together and exchange speech, and what they choose to say can determine whether they will hug one another or hit one another. Jesus said it’s not what a person eats that defiles them, but what comes out of their mouth. Speaking can lead people into weddings or wars. Now I turn control of this part of myself over to the God Who created me. Is there any sense in this? Does it even have to make sense? To be the mouthpiece of God, allowing vocalization of moanings too deep for human language to convey, according to Paul. To, on a regular basis, have that part of our brain, and that part of our will, and that part of our behavior used in such a way as to be in alignment with the Will and the Spirit of God the Holy Spirit... could that not be a good thing, do you think?
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8/20/2006 11:54 pm |
Faithgirlsaid: Sheri: For the record, I have never, ever heard any Pentacostals or Baptists or anybody EXCEPT ON HERE say that those who didn't have the Baptism of the HOly Spirit and especially the speaking in tongues part, would GO TO HELL!!!! That is just crazy, really.... I've gone to lots of different church's, to listen to the teaching or participate in the awsome worship services and I can't even recall any Pastors preaching that either....the Lord is MORE gracious than that.... There was something I've been told now for years, which I would love to share here... and it is this.... The Holy Spirit is always a gentleman....... Let me say that once again......... The Holy Spirit is ALWAYS a gentleman. Would a gentleman tell you that you would be going to hell for not speaking in tongues? love you, sister.... Indescribeable replies on 8/20/2006 6:04 pm: Upon further research, I found that it was the Shakers that started the movement that started the bad name for those having the gifts because these characteristics of that faith surley resemble the ones on the 50 video clips. Shakers manifested these Charismatic signs which don't seem to have such a good reception in our times except for those drawn into it out of emotionalism. This stuff mentioned here just isn't Biblical. Holy Laughter Being Drunk in the spirit Being Slain in the spirit New revelations Prophetic utterances Jerking, spasms, hopping, rolling on the ground Dancing in the spirit Getting songs while in trances Shakers believe these damnable doctrines: Shakers denied the true humanity & deity of Christ. Shakers deny eternal damnation of the lost Shakers believe in universal salvation Shakers deny the atonement of Christ on the cross Shakers deny the Trinity of God But I will tell you that I looked up several United Pentacostal websites and found that the information that was given to me was right on the money pertaining to what they believe. They were not kidding and they believed it with conviction. Well, the Holy Spirit is always a gentleman......you sure do seem to be putting some pretty harsh labels on some poeple whom many of us here have nothing to do with.....or have had anything to do with.... My bible says were to work out our salvation with fear and trembling..... I've not done any studies about the shakers....so I don't know what they do or don't believe.... Once again I will say tho, we need to be very careful what we say about the Holy Spirit and God's ways aren't always our ways nor are His thoughts our thoughts..... If someone is attending your new church, are you going to kick them out if they fall down because the anointing hit them and they could no longer stand? Are you going to kick them out if they decide they want to dance? Are they going to be kicked out for prophesying? Are they going to be told they are damned??? I think I am done here, GBY
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8/21/2006 7:53 am |
SHERI SAYS: How do you feel about these things: It is up to you to keep your salvation in place. It is up to you to make yourself understand every detail of your salvation. It is up to you to help finish or maintain the cross of Christ. Obviously these things are not biblical. I don’t know about you but if I were responsible for just one of those, I would be in big trouble! I would be completely without hope and totally frustrated. No matter how much we work out our understanding of our salvation wether it be with fear and trembling or grace and love, it will never balance. How could it? It’s God alone Who has done it all in Christ! Believers don't have to be fearful and tremble because of Christ and what he did at the Cross. THE BIBLE SAYS: we are to EACH work out our salvation with fear and trembling....you are saying that we don't....WHO SHOULD I BELIEVE????? GOD OR YOU????????? I'm not going to stop speaking in tongues any time soon Sheri, but do you have to keep posting offensive things about it???? If you think all of us act like the "shakers" or the people in the videos and mooing comments, you are sadly mistaken. Not once have you even come close to apologizing about any of the offensive comments. What are you going to do when someone doesn't believe exactly like you do at your new church? I'm not going to discuss this any longer with you. GBY...
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8/21/2006 4:48 pm |
Sherri, I must admit I just read your post and none of the others. I am familiar with the scriptual position for and against the speaking of tongues and other spiritual gifts. However I am here just to give you my experience with these. I have only had one episode that I think might qualify as evidence of these gifts. Once after praying on something and fasting for two days, I had an "experience". I was suddenly gripped by a force and heard what I presume to have been God speaking to me in my mind. I was told a few things, one of which was something that was supposed to take place sometime in the future. This hasn't come true after almost a year, but still may. At the same time, I remember speaking things that I have no idea what they meant. This felt like it lasted about 30 seconds, but once i was released I looked at the clock and it had been about 20 minutes. I was totally exhausted for a little while and then i was fine. Now I did not totally fast, I had water now and then. But did my mind play tricks on me or was it from God. Even to this day i can't say for certain and i have never tried to reach that level again. So i don't really know if the gifts still exist, but i hope they do. Donny
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8/22/2006 11:35 am |
Sheri: You made the comment: "No need to sign, I'm just in a BC group of "Holly Roller" friends, at least that is what they use to call you guys when I was in high school. No offense, but my raising up was much different than you all." This DOES offend me for several reasons! Now you are making assumptions about how I was raised, you have no CLUE how I was raised, for all you know I could have been raised up by a bunch of satanists. I was raised in a family that put down people who followed after the Lord wholeheartedly, they called them every name in the book, now I am being called these names by them also. This is great, I can come to BC and get called these names too. As far as your other "comment" about the Pentacostal CHurch, what part of "I don't attend the United Pentacostal Church" don't you understand? Please stop responding to my old posts here, It is really just starting to make me angry, the labels, the assumptions and the rude comments by you. I personally don't care what you say any more, it isnt my job to CONVINCE you anyway, this is between you and Dennis and you have taken it out on everybody else. I should't have to defend the Lord's work in my life and you have no business treating fellow Christians like this. I would watch what I said about the Holy Spirit if I were you. Goodbye.
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8/22/2006 3:28 pm |
Until I got here, I never heard of tongues or a lot of this stuff. I guess I could buy a book or something. Somethings here are quite confusing, I still don't get what all this is about. What happened to doing things just because Jesus loves you!!! 
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Could it be that the conversion experience is different for each individual? I feel that I have had it but not in the same way that most of you have expressed it here on the blog. --- Just my thoughts. (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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Yes, I do! I didn't before, though I was born again, but then I started to pray for it and I got the gift. I speak in tongues over prayers on public or on my own and more I use it more languages I get. I also sing in tongues. Singing is one form of a prayer and I sing in tongues. I speak in tongues when I go on walking, when driving to work, when cooking, cleaning... its communication to God and I praise Him anywhere, no matter what I do. My kids ask me sometimes, *Mom what are you talking* and I reply *I speak with the Lord* This is a gift Paul recommended to everybody to have. It's way to build your inner man and strengthen your spirit. When You speak in tongues devil doesn't understand you, when you pray in understanding he knows what you say. There for secrets is good to tell with language enemy doesn't understand. God is the SAME yesterday today and forever, He doesn't change and His promises does not change eider. He send the Holy spirit to us for our strength and tongues is one gift of the Holy Spirit. When having this gift is good to seek other ones...mostly gift of prophesy. (I do prophesy sometimes, and see prophetical dreams) On your children and servant...I pure my spirit and they prophesy and see visions and dreams. Its in Joel, the promises God gave to US. We are the last generation on earth before the rapture and return of Jesus Christ.
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Let's all do a test. When you or if you do speak in tongues per the charasmatic type- record it. Then transcribe it phonetically onto paper or even into your 'puter. Since you don't need to translate if it is done in private- no big deal. But if you DO have the ability to translate, copy that down too. The phonetic transcriptions are then the exact "tongue" being spoken in written form. If we can do this, we can indeed prove that the tongues are real. Or NOT. "Though I speak with the tongues of men or of angels..." If it isn't a known human tongue- it must be that of angels. Or NOT. We can end this controversy in short order. It shouldn't take long to record and transcribe. End the controversy. PROVE YOUR TONGUE SPEAKING IS ABSOLUTELY REAL. Or not. Easy eh? Most surprising thing was one fried of mine who spoke so funny and many times I said It sound so much like chinese. Later the chinese sounding word turn out to be chinese and it was Praising the God. Her spirit was praising God and his name in chinese, without her knowing. It was the spirit of God in her that turned into God to praise him!!!! Recently my present pastor prayed and spoke something between in Italy. One boy noticed words 'pillar of fire', but mostly the languages are heavenly, we do not be able to interpret.
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Indescribeable replies on 8/24/2006 9:08 pm: Plkeas explain what you mean by born again. Exactly what happened at this moment that you became born again? Sister I will but later.Hold on now I am lttl bit busy...
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I have no answers, I have no clue, I just don't have the gift and I was baptised in both the Lutheran church and submersed in a Charasmatic church that does not speak tongues or promote it so I don't believe it is denominational either. I have always been open to God's gifts but don't feel this one God gave to me or don't you think I would have it and I certainly wouldn't be asking questions. I have come to the conclusion that God is much wider than we think. I have a gift of mercy and helps which is very strong. Tongues is something that I just didn't understand as I stated in my blog title. Also, I know I am going to heaven even though I don't speak in tongues. Peace to all who want to continue discussing. (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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I have no answers, I have no clue, I just don't have the gift and I was baptised in both the Lutheran church and submersed in a Charasmatic church that does not speak tongues or promote it so I don't believe it is denominational either. I have always been open to God's gifts but don't feel this one God gave to me or don't you think I would have it and I certainly wouldn't be asking questions. I have come to the conclusion that God is much wider than we think. I have a gift of mercy and helps which is very strong. Tongues is something that I just didn't understand as I stated in my blog title. Also, I know I am going to heaven even though I don't speak in tongues. Peace to all who want to continue discussing. Salvation is not up to your baptism. When you decided to turn to God in your heart and gave your life to Him, He forgave your sins. Acts 13:38-40; Act.16:31 Thou Paul recommends that Holy Spirit baptism should appear in tongues Act.19:2-6 its not way into salvation. He said work for your salvation...When turning to God and keeping in Him, He is just and doesn't deny His mercy, but helps us on our way towards the perfection. We are flesh, and flesh fights against the Spirit in everything. To have Holy Spirit in tongues you have to surrender. I remember when I was praying for it, I thought 'what about if I speak silly or funny way, or it doesn't look reasonable'...and my own shame was the block on a way. When surrendering totally and just trusting God knowing He doesn't make me to be in shame I sprung to speak in tongues. You asked of my being born again. I was born in Baptist home and thou my parents were believes, I was not. In age of 17 I went to Pentecostal church and asked for prayer for my salvation and turned in to God. What happened I know that it was a relieve. I felt essayer and fear was gone. Some people doesn't feel anything they just make decision and they Faith grows on they way in Jesus, but I had a strong feeling attached into my decision. You sister should not doubt yourself. You are in Lord and confessing it in your mouth makes you the child of God. Number of baptism doesn't make difference, just trust that what God has started in you, that He is able to make into perfection. Gift of tongues shall come if you seek for it, but its not the world if you do not have it. Gift of tongues helps in prayer. If you have to pray lets say over night its hart by reasoning alone, but having such gift you can make it because praying in tongues the praying subjects rise up and then you can last long. Its good you ask. No one who ask is stupid. Stupids are those who do not know and pretend to know and remain in they ignorance. By asking you will learn. You have wisdom to show humbleness to seek for what you want to know and surely Holy Spirit will come and fill you so that you shall know 'this is it' Be blessed and covered in Jesus
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Indescribeable replies on 8/24/2006 9:05 pm: The scriptures say that in the New Testament it is the FRUITS of the Spirit, rather than the Gifts, which are a better indicator of ones standing before God. According to several Scriptures, it is only those who produce fruit who will enter God's Kingdom. But no similar promise is ever given with regard to the Gifts. And to obtain this information I have studied Mat 7: 15-19, Mat 12: 33-37, Mat 13: 24-30, 36-43, Mark 4: 26-32, Luke 8: 5-8, 11-15, Luke 13: 6-9, John 4: 34-38, John 15: 1-8, 16. Rom 7: 4-6, and Gal 5: 22-23. YOU ARE RIGHT No gift is useful if its not used in love. When fruit of Spirit grows in us(longsufferin,love,Patience....)then we learn to use the gift in right way. If prophet gets knowledge of sin in someone and doesn't know how in love to correct the person without condemning, the prophecy is useless. It may turn the falling one into shame and anger. Love covers the multitude of sins and with wisdom it turns things into better.
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LET ME ADD ONE MORE SUBJECT HERE. Corinthians 13:8-10 says ‒ “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” This place was quoted here several times and I saw explanation for it to be that gift of tongues is no more needed according this Scripture??????? Well, this place of scripture shall be fulfilled on that glorious day when JESUS comes again. That day and after it we don't need anymore Holy Spirit powers and gifts for encouragement and strength for running towards the goal the price set before us. That day we are lifted up to reign with Christ as royal priests and Holy people of God and our striving and struggles are over.
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8/25/2006 12:01 pm |
Sheri, I believe in the gift of tongues. I believe it still exist today and is given by the Holy Ghost to whom He wills, not every believer. I believe that He gives it for the same purpose that it was originally given - breaking down the language barrier between the saved person who is witnessing for Christ and the lost person who needs to hear the Gospel. This gift has nothing to do with anything else - worship, prayer, etc. Yes, many people have experiences - as I have read here. Can we dismiss them? No. Can we deny them? No. But what we can do is test them according to the Bible. We should let God interpret our experiences via the Bible, not the other way around. Here are a few blog entries that I made on this important doctrinal issue. Baptism Of The Holy Spirit The Gifts Of The Holy Spirit Gift Of Tongues In Context Of History And Bible The Misunderstood Gift A Private Prayer Language I hope and pray that this is a blessing to all who read them. Please keep in mind that nothing is here to bash those that disagree with what the Bible says, but rather to encourage them to read it for themselves. Bryan
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Bryan Posted a very interestesting document that I now recall reading several months back. After re-reading it I understand better where some of these different terminologies have evolved: I am going to repost it here as it is posted as a link above called Private Prayer language. Thank you for your contribution to my understanding Brian. This has been even more helpful to read the second time around. A PRIVATE PRAYER LANGUAGE? Distributed by Way of Life Literature’s Fundamental Baptist Information Service. Copyright 2001. These articles cannot be stored on BBS or Internet sites or sold or placed by themselves or with other material in any electronic format for sale, but may be distributed for free by e-mail or by print. They must be left intact and nothing removed or changed, including these informational headers. This is a listing for Fundamental Baptists and other fundamentalist, Bible-believing Christians. Our goal in this particular aspect of our ministry is not devotional but is TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO ASSIST PREACHERS IN THE PROTECTION OF THE CHURCHES IN THIS APOSTATE HOUR. Updated and enlarged May 16, 2006 (first published March 6, 2006) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns AT wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) - Pentecostals and Charismatics often teach that there are two types of tongues described in the New Testament: the “public language tongues” of Pentecost and the “private prayer” tongues of 1 Corinthians 14:4 -- “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.” Some call this distinction “ministry tongues” and “devotional tongues.” Early Pentecostal leaders understood that biblical tongues were real earthly languages. They even thought they would be able to go to foreign mission fields and witness through miraculous tongues without having to learn the languages. Those who attempted this, though, returned bitterly disappointed! “Alfred G. Garr and his wife went to the Far East with the conviction that they could preach the gospel in 'the Indian and Chinese languages.’ Lucy Farrow went to Africa and returned after seven months during which she was alleged to have preached to the natives in their own 'Kru language.’ The German pastor and analyst Oskar Pfister reported the case of a Pentecostal... ‘Simon,’ who had planned to go to China using tongues for preaching. Numerous other Pentecostal missionaries went abroad believing they had the miraculous ability to speak in the languages of those to whom they were sent. These Pentecostal claims were well known at the time. S.C. Todd of the Bible Missionary Society investigated eighteen Pentecostals who went to Japan, China, and India ‘expecting to preach to the natives in those countries in their own tongue,’ and found that by their own admission ‘in no single instance have [they] been able to do so.’ As these and other missionaries returned in disappointment and failure, Pentecostals were compelled to rethink their original view of speaking in tongues” (Robert Mapes Anderson, Vision of the Disinherited: The Making of American Pentecostalism). The conclusion was soon reached that their “tongues” were not earthly languages but a “heavenly” or special prayer language; and those are the terms we have heard frequently at large Charismatic conferences, such as those in New Orleans in 1987, Indianapolis in 1990, and St. Louis in 2000. The tongues that I heard in these conferences were not languages of any sort, but merely repetitious mumblings that anyone could imitate. Larry Lea supposedly spoke in tongues in Indianapolis in 1990, and this is a key example of what is being passed off for tongues in the Charismatic movement. It went something like this: “Bubblyida bubblyida hallelujah bubblyida hallabubbly shallabubblyida kolabubblyida glooooory hallelujah bubblyida.” I wrote that down as he was saying it and later checked it against the tape. Nancy Kellar, a Roman Catholic nun who was on the executive committee of the St. Louis meeting in 2000, spoke in “tongues” on Thursday evening of the conference. Her tongues went like this: “Shananaa leea, shananaa higha, shananaa nanaa, shananaa leea…” repeated over and over and over. If you think I’m making fun of these people, you are wrong. This is taken directly from the audiotapes of the messages. If these are languages, they certainly have a simple vocabulary! My children had a more complex language than that when they were still toddlers. Michael Harper says: “In the short history of the Charismatic Renewal speaking in tongues has become rare in public, but continues to be a vital expression of prayer in private (These Wonderful Gifts, 1989, p. 97). He says this type of “tongues” is “a prayer language: a way of communicating more effectively with God” (p. 92). He claims that this experience “edifies” apart from the understanding: “Modern Western man finds it hard to believe that speaking unknown words to God can possibly be edifying. ... All one can say is ‘try it and see’. I can still remember today the moments when I first used this gift, and the immediate awareness I had that I was being edified. This is one of the most important reasons why the gift needs to be used regularly in private prayer” (These Wonderful Gifts, p. 93). Harper says he is mystically aware of being edified even though he does not know what he is saying. He also says this “gift needs to be used regularly” and is therefore something important for the Christian life. To prove his point he simply invites the skeptical observer to “try it and see,” reminding us that experience is the Charismatic’s greatest authority. (The “come and see” approach creates a new problem, though, for the Bible never says to “try tongues” or to seek after tongues and never describes how one could learn how to speak in tongues. In the Bible, speaking in tongues is always a supernatural activity that is sovereignly given by God.) Even some that do not claim to be Pentecostals or Charismatics have this experience. Jerry Rankin, head of the International Mission Board (Southern Baptist), says he speaks in a “private prayer language” and contrasts this with the practice of “glossolalia.” “I do have a private prayer language, have for more than 30 years. I don’t consider myself to have a gift of tongues. I’ve never been led to practice glossolalia, you know, publicly, and I think the spiritual gifts clearly in the didactic passage of the Scriptures are talking about the public uses, edification and gifts in the church. ... I've never viewed personally my intimacy with the Lord and the way His Spirit guides me in my prayer time as being the same as glossolalia and subjected to that criteria. ... I just want God to have freedom to do everything that He wants to do in my life and I’m going to be obedient to that” (“IMB president speaks plainly with state editors about private prayer language,” Baptist Press, Feb. 17, 2006). It is a wonderful thing to desire to do God’s will wherever that leads, but He will never lead contrary to His own Word in the Scriptures. For the following reasons we are convinced that the Bible does not support the doctrine of a “private prayer language.” FIRST, PAUL SAID THE TONGUES SPEAKER EDIFIES HIMSELF (1 Cor. 14:4). That would not be possible unless the words could be understood, because throughout the fourteenth chapter of 1 Corinthians Paul says that understanding is necessary for edification. In verse 3 he says that prophesying edifies because it comforts and exhorts men, obviously referring to things that are understood to the hearer. In verse 4 he says that tongues speaking does not edify unless it is interpreted. In verses 16-17 he says that if someone does not understand something he is not edified. Words could not be plainer. If there is no edification of the church without understanding, how is it that the individual believer could be edified without understanding? This is confusion. The word “edify” means to build up in the faith. Webster’s 1828 dictionary defined it as “to instruct and improve the mind in knowledge generally, and particularly in moral and religious knowledge, in faith and holiness.” The words “edify,” “edification,” “edified,” and “edifying” are used in 18 verses in the New Testament and always refer to building up in the faith by means of instruction and godly living. For example, in Ephesians 4 the body of Christ is edified through the ministry of God-given preachers (Eph. 4:11-12). SECOND, IF THE TONGUES OF 1 CORINTHIANS 14 IS DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF ACTS 2, THE BIBLE NEVER EXPLAINS THE DIFFERENCE. We leave “tongues” in the book of Acts (the last mention is in Acts 19:6) and we do not see them again until 1 Corinthians 12-14. If the “tongues” in this epistle is a different type of thing than the “tongues” in Acts, why doesn’t the Bible say so? THIRD, PAUL SAYS THAT TONGUES ARE AN EARTHLY LANGUAGE (1 Cor. 14:20-22). If tongues were some sort of “private prayer language,” why would Paul give this prophetic explanation of it and state dogmatically that it is an earthly language? He does not say that only some “types of tongues” are languages. FOURTH, IN 1 COR. 14:28 PAUL SAYS THE TONGUES SPEAKER SPEAKS BOTH TO HIMSELF AND TO GOD. “But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.” This means that he can understand what he is speaking. Otherwise, how could he speak to himself? Does anyone speak to himself in “unknown gibberish”? FIFTH, THERE IS NO EXAMPLE IN 1 CORINTHIANS 14 OF A BELIEVER SPEAKING IN TONGUES PRIVATELY AND THERE IS NO ENCOURAGEMENT TO DO SO. What about verse 28? “If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God” (1 Cor. 14:27-2. This says nothing about praying in tongues privately. It is talking about the exercise of gifts in a public meeting. Paul says that if there is no interpretation, the individual tongues speaker should keep silent and pray to God, but he says nothing about getting off by oneself and praying privately in tongues. One must read all of that into the passage. SIXTH, IF THERE WERE A “PRIVATE PRAYER LANGUAGE” THAT EDIFIED THE CHRISTIAN’S LIFE IT WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT AND THE BIBLE WOULD EXPLAIN IT CLEARLY AND CIRCUMSCRIBE ITS USAGE AS IT DOES THE USE OF TONGUES IN THE CHURCH. Further, a “private prayer language” that helped the Christian to be stronger in his walk with Christ would doubtless be mentioned in other places in the New Testament in the context of sanctification and Christian living. In fact, though, it is never mentioned in such a context. The apostles and prophets addressed many situations in the New Testament epistles and gave all things necessary for holy Christian living, but they never taught that the believer needs to speak in a “private prayer language” in order to have spiritual victory or to find God’s guidance or to be healed or to be able to fall asleep or any other such thing. SEVENTH, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT TONGUES-SPEAKING COULD BE A NECESSARY PART OF THE CHRISTIAN LIFE, BECAUSE PAUL PLAINLY STATES THAT NOT ALL SPEAK IN TONGUES (1 Cor. 14:29-20). Some will ask, “Why, then, does Paul say, ‘I would that ye all spake with tongues’” (1 Cor. 14:5)? The answer is that Paul was not saying that they all did speak with tongues or that they all could speak with tongues; he was merely expressing a desire that the exercise of spiritual gifts be done and that it be done right. In 1 Cor. 7, Paul uses exactly the same expression in the context of celibacy. He said, “For I would that all men were even as I myself...” We do not know of any Pentecostals or Charismatics who take this statement literally by teaching that it is God’s will for every believer to remain unmarried, but they take the same expression in 1 Cor. 14:5 as a law. There is a strange inconsistency here. EIGHTH, ALL OF THE NEW TESTAMENT’S INSTRUCTION ABOUT PRAYER TAKE FOR GRANTED THAT PRAYER IS A CONSCIOUS, WILLFUL, UNDERSTANDABLE ACT ON THE PART OF THE BELIEVER AND THAT HE IS SPEAKING TO GOD IN UNDERSTANDABLE TERMS. We see this in Jesus’ instructions about prayer. “After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen” (Matt. 6:5-13). This is a conscious, willful, understanding prayer. We see the same thing in Paul’s instructions about prayer (i.e., Rom. 15:30-32; Eph. 6:18-20; Col. 4:2-3; Heb. 13:18-19). There is not one example of a prayer recorded in Scripture that is anything other than an individual speaking to God in understandable terms. In fact, Christ forbade the repetitious type of “prayers” that are commonly heard among those that practice a “private prayer language.” “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking” (Mat. 6). Yet I have oftentimes heard “prayer tongues” that sound like this: “Shalalama, balalama, shalalama, balalama, bubalama, shalalama, bugalala, shalalama....” Whatever that is, it is not New Testament “tongues” and it is not New Testament prayer. NINTH, EVEN IF WE WERE TO AGREE THAT 1 CORINTHIANS 14 REFERS TO A “PRIVATE PRAYER LANGUAGE,” IT WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE LEARNED OR IMITATED. Whatever is described in 1 Corinthians 14 is a divine miracle, but this is contrary to the Pentecostal-Charismatic practice whereby people are taught to speak in a “prayer language.” We discuss this under a later point in our study on tongues. TENTH, TO USE THE GIFT OF TONGUES AS A “PRIVATE PRAYER LANGUAGE” WOULD BE TO DESTROY ITS CHIEF PURPOSE, WHICH IS A SIGN TO UNBELIEVING ISRAEL. Former Pentecostal Fernand Legrand wisely observes: “By using this sign in private, some think they can profit from ONE of its aspects, while ignoring the others, but you cannot dismantle a gift and retain only one of its components. A car is a complex mechanical object that is driven as an entity or is not driven at all. You cannot take the wheels for a run and leave the body and the engine in the garage. When a car is running it is the whole car that moves. In the same way, TONGUES WERE NOT TO BE SLICED UP LIKE A SAUSAGE. They were to edify the speaker AND the others AND be a sign for the Jewish unbelievers AND be understandable or be so rendered by interpretation. They had to be all that at the same time. The gift was inseparable from its one and only unchanging purpose: to be a sign for non-believing Jews of the universal offer of salvation (Acts 2:17; 1 Cor. 14:20-22)” (All about Speaking in Tongues, p. 67). ELEVENTH, THE PRACTICE OF LEARNING HOW TO SPEAK IN TONGUES THAT IS POPULAR AMONG PENTECOSTALS AND CHARISMATICS IS UNSCRIPTURAL AND DANGEROUS. If we were to agree that there is such a thing as a “private prayer language” and that it would help us live a better Christian life and if we were to accept the Charismatic’s challenge to “try it and see,” the next question is, “How do I begin to speak in this ‘prayer language’?” A chapter in the book These Wonderful Gifts (by Michael Harper) is entitled “Letting Go and Letting God,” in which the believer is instructed to stop analyzing experiences so carefully and strictly, to stop “setting up alarm systems” and “squatting nervously behind protective walls.” He says the believer should step out from behind his “walls and infallible systems” and just open up to God. That is a necessary but unscriptural and exceedingly dangerous step toward receiving the Charismatic experiences. Having stopped analyzing everything with Scripture, the standard method of experiencing the “gift of tongues” or a “private prayer language” is to open one’s mouth and to start speaking words but not words that one understands and allegedly “God will take control.” Dennis Bennett says: “Open your mouth and show that you believe the Lord has baptized you in the Spirit by beginning to speak. Don’t speak English, or any other language you know, for God can’t guide you to speak in tongues if you are speaking in a language known to you. ... Just like a child learning to talk for the first time, open your mouth and speak out the first syllables and expressions that come to your lips. ... You may begin to speak, but only get out a few halting sounds. That’s wonderful! You’ve broken the ‘sound barrier’! Keep in with those sounds. Offer them to God. Tell Jesus you love Him in those ‘joyful noises’! In a very real sense, any sound you make, offering your tongue to God in simple faith, may be the beginning of speaking in tongues” (The Holy Spirit and You, pp. 76, 77, 79). This is so grossly unscriptural and nonsensical it would seem unnecessary to refute it. There is absolutely nothing like this in the New Testament. To ignore the Bible and to seek something that the Bible never says seek in ways the Bible does not support and to open oneself uncritically to religious experiences like this puts oneself in danger of receiving “another spirit” (2 Cor. 11:4). QUESTION: If tongues can be understood by the speaker, why does Paul say, “For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful” (1 Cor. 14:14)? ANSWER: The Pentecostal-Charismatic movements find justification in this verse for their doctrine that tongues-speaking is some sort of communication that bypasses the intellect and understanding. Pastor Bill Williams of San Jose, California, says that the awareness one has through tongues is “beyond emotion, beyond intellect. It transcends human understanding” (“Speaking in Tongues--Believers Relish the Experience,” Los Angeles Times, Sept. 19, 1987, B2). Charles Hunter says, “The reason some of you don’t speak [in tongues] fluently is that you tried to think of the sounds. ... You don’t even have to think in order to pray in the Spirit” (Hunter, “Receiving the Baptism with the Holy Spirit,” Charisma, July 1989, p. 54). But if 1 Cor. 14:14 means that the tongues-speaker is speaking “beyond his intellect” or something of that sort, it would be the only place in Scripture where such a doctrine is found. Nowhere else does the Scripture say that man’s spirit can operate properly without the understanding or that God operates on man’s spirit in such a manner that he does not understand the communication or that there is some sort of spiritual level of communication that bypasses the understanding. In this same epistle, Paul said, “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?” (1 Cor. 2:11). Thus, man’s spirit is that part of him that knows and understands. Eph. 4:23 says the believer is to “be renewed in the spirit of your mind.” Obviously this involves understanding, because Romans 12:2 says we are “transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God..” What is Paul talking about in 1 Cor. 14:14, then? Most commentaries say that he is referring to the tongues-speaker’s understanding in relation to others rather than to his own understanding. Barnes: “Produces nothing that will be of advantage to them. It is like a barren tree; a tree that bears nothing that can be of benefit to others. They cannot understand what I say, and, of course, they cannot be profited by what I utter.” Adam Clarke: “... my understanding is unfruitful to all others, because they do not understand my prayers, and I either do not or cannot interpret them.” The Family Bible Notes: “...according to another and preferable view, it bears no fruit to others, since it communicates nothing to them in an intelligible way.” Jamieson, Fausset, Brown: “"understanding," the active instrument of thought and reasoning; which in this case must be "unfruitful" in edifying others, since the vehicle of expression is unintelligible to them.” John Wesley: “‘My spirit prayeth’--By the power of the Spirit I understand the words myself. ‘But my understanding is unfruitful’--The knowledge I have is no benefit to others.” Matthew Henry: “but his understanding would be unfruitful (1 Cor. 14:14), that is, the sense and meaning of his words would be unfruitful, he would not be understood, nor therefore would others join with him in his devotions.” Treasury of Scripture Knowledge: “That is, ‘not productive of any benefit to others.’” The context of 1 Cor. 14:14 supports this interpretation: “Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.” (1 Cor. 14:13-17). Paul says the tongues-speaker should pray both with the spirit and with the understanding, and it is obvious that he is talking about the understanding of those who are listening, because he says, “Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?” In 1 Cor. 14:13-17 Paul is saying that the tongues-speaker should give an interpretation of his tongue so that he is not the only one that understands what is being said, because if he prays in a tongue that is not interpreted those who are listening cannot understand and cannot therefore be edified. Way of Life Literature. Copyright 1997-2001. P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061‒0368. 1-866-295-4143 (toll free: USA & Canada), 519-652-2619 (voice), fbns AT wayoflife.org (email) http [colon] [forward slash] [forward slash] www [dot] wayoflife [dot] org [forward slash] [forward slash] (web site) Canada: Bethel Baptist Church, 4212 Campbell St. N., London, Ont. N6P 1A6 1-866-295-4143 (toll free), 519-652-2619 (voice), 519-652-0056 (fax) (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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8/25/2006 11:37 pm |
John 23. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The tongue is flesh. The whole reason behind "speaking in tongues" was to spread the new fresh gospel of Jesus throughout the beginning of the first Church. The miracle came when many different people from different regions and languages were present. All heard the same words spoken in their personal language all at one time. (cause and effect) Such is not needed today with the gospel spread throughout the world. Why it is spoken, tongue shall cease. Why we are to worship God in spirit and truth. Not even a need to speak a single word to praise our Lord. He judges the hearts of men, and he knows even our thoughts. The tongue is a double edge sword and a evil thing, who can control it.
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Sheri, first off, I would like to correct the misconception that all tongues should be understanable to mankind. To the best of my knowledge, we have never been given a translation of the language of the angels. Also, please note that it is love that makes tongues understandable. This infers the speaker must be speaking in love but perhaps the hearer must be listening in love as well. I would also like to point out that when Paul spoke of using the gift of tongues only for the edification of the church he was talking about speaking in tongues aloud in a group setting, not using tongues in prayer or in private. 1Co 13:1 ¶ Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. Secondly, the Holy Spirit does take over and prays in our stead when we cannot find the words to express our needs to the Lord. Ro 8:26 ¶ Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Next, I would like to make it clear that not everyone gets every gift and not every one get any gift. The Holy Spirit gives the gifts by His discretion, as He wills. 1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. As to the teaching that the gifts disappeared or were taken away after the apostles all died. I have still seen no Biblical proof of that. In fact I still have no answer to my own question as to how the church continues if that is so because of all the other gifts of the Holy Spirit that would also be gone if that were the case. Which would include all of these: Romans 12:6-8 Prophecy Ministry Teaching Exhortation Giving Ruling Showing Mercy Speaking in Tongues Interpretation of Tongues I Corinthians 12:8-10 The Word of Wisdom The Word of Knowledge Faith Healing Miracles Prophecy Discerning of Spirits I Cor 12:28 Apostles Prophets Teachers Miracles Healing Helps Governments Diversities of Tongues There is also the question of Peter's reference to the prophecy in Joel at the Pentacost. He said at that time that the things that the people were seeing was a fulfillment of that prophecy. And that prophecy was pertaining to the last days. Ac 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved Are we to believe then that the last days have come and gone? No, they have not! We are still in them. For our Lord has yet to return. Therefore are the gifts of the Spirit still with us and still relevent to the church today. Does that mean that we are to condemn one another for having or not having, using or not using them. God forbid. For we are many parts of the same body and each must do its own work according to the leading of the Holy Spirit. No, we are to love one another, support one another, bear one anothers burdens and edify one another. God loves each of us and uses us according to His will and purpose. My dear sister, continue on the path that He has set you on and let no one draw you from it for He has blessed you in a mighty way and will continue to do so. My prayers are with you. Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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Sheri, I just noticed the information that you posted from the fundamentalist Baptist. Did you by any chance notice this disclaimer in the third paragraph? "Our goal in this particular aspect of our ministry is not devotional but is TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO ASSIST PREACHERS IN THE PROTECTION OF THE CHURCHES IN THIS APOSTATE HOUR." Once again a group of so called Christians proclaim that it is their way or the highway to hell. Claiming that they alone have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and everyone else are heretics and apostates. Refusing to acknowledge that they too are only human, capable of making mistakes, and seeing through a glass, darkly, as are the rest of us, refusing to realize that we all only know in part and some know some parts while others know other parts because we have revealed to us according to His will, His plan, His purpose. Ga 5:13 ¶ For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. This same scripture in the New Living Bible Galatians 5:13 For you have been called to live in freedom-not freedom to satisfy your sinful nature, but freedom to serve one another in love. 14 For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself" 15 But if instead of showing love among yourselves you are always biting and devouring one another, watch out! Beware of destroying one another. 16 I advise you to live according to your new life in the Holy Spirit. Then you won't be doing what your sinful nature craves. 17 The old sinful nature loves to do evil, which is just opposite from what the Holy Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are opposite from what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, and your choices are never free from this conflict. 18 But when you are directed by the Holy Spirit, you are no longer subject to the law. 19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, 20 idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other kinds of sin. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. 22 But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Here there is no conflict with the law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. 25 If we are living now by the Holy Spirit, let us follow the Holy Spirit's leading in every part of our lives. 26 Let us not become conceited, or irratate one another, or be jealous of one another. Satan uses such as this, in-fighting, condemnation one of the other, bickering, name-calling and what have you, to destroy the Church and the witness of Christians everywhere. Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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8/26/2006 5:52 pm |
Hi, I was posting a link to my prayer request that has been answered.....GBY Check out my blog... I tried to get man Christians that I knew, to move in here and help me, they didn't feel led, so the Lord moved some in here for me!!!!
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8/26/2006 7:39 pm |
PaleRider (John ) 132 posts View my blog 8/12/2006 7:35 am [Add a comment] [quote] Apparently you folks can't even read the verse she started with very well, what does it say, and what does it mean? Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13-10: "Beareth all things, believe th all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." WHAT PART DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND!!! The part that PEOPLE don't understand is that it does NOT mean that which is popularly propounded. That being that when we got the written word that speaking in tongues was made obsolite. Not true at all. The written Word we have today is not perfect. It was when it was first given, but in the process, it has been changed and revised, so we now have at best a copy, of a copy, of a copy. So the written Word can not be that which is perfect. There has only been one that is perfect. Jesus Christ. Which is exactly what that scripture refers to. When we are raptured, we will no longer speak in tongues or operate any of that stuff, but not before. Just the fact that speaking in tongues still exists means it is not obsolete. For when it becomes obsolete, it will also cease. In the Gospels, Jesus makes numourous references to the coming of the holy spirit. In the context, it is easy to see that the holy spirit is to be a stand in for Jesus to us until he comes back to get us. Now as for the rest of the comments and questions, much I've not read because it's pretty much the same as I saw before, just because not all believers speak in tongues doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If you attend a Penticostal, or Assemblies of God service, you will absolutely encounter people who speak in tongues. Now, it is often misused in it's application, and there are some different views about how and when it is used. That doesn't make it wrong, anymore then the different ways of water baptizing makes baptizing wrong. Some dip their head into a tub of water, some have a little water sprinkled on them, some get a bucket dumped on them, and some even have a small pool where a person is totally emersed. All are forms of water baptizim. Which is right and which is wrong is subject to a lot of debate. So it is with speaking in tongues. Some chruches have one person speak in tongues, and another interpret, some have the same speaker do both. Some speak in tongues during faith healings. Some even speak in tongues while handeling snakes. Which if any is for you? and which if any are wrong? Some churches practice faith healings, some don't, and some are so strong in pushing faith healings that they condem people that go to a doctor. If I attended a church that practiced it, and steped up for a faith healing, and didn't get it, then it's because of my own lack of believing, and not a big deal. But if I got ridiculed over it, then in my opinion, I am in the wrong church, and it's time to find a new one. Just because it doesn't seem to work for you, doesnt' mean it doesn't work at all, just means it didn't work there, and try something different. I'm not going to try to cover the last 4 pages of commments and questions, but if someone has a sincre question, I'd be happy to try to field it. I have spoken in tongues myself since I was a teen. I've led a few people into speaking in tongues themselves, taught dozens of people about it, and written scores of pages of remarks, answers, and teachings about it. So this is a matter I know quite well. BUT I'm not hare to argue about it. So people like BSK who think they want to argue or teach me why it is obsolete, can just go teach someone else, for it is certainly NOT obsolete to someone who has been doing it for the last 30 years. It is still good for at least 11 different things which I posted in blogs of Walking Man and J.C.s Sister. I shall retrieve it and post it here too, as a separate post as this one is getting long. Isaiah 66:2b; But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.
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8/26/2006 7:45 pm |
Why I speak in tongues, is a good subject matter. Well here's the real short list of why. 1, It edifies me. 1 Corth 14:1-2; 2, I'm speaking devine secrets. 1 Corth 14:2; 3, I'm speaking the wonderful works of God. Acts 2:11; 4, I am magnifiying God. Acts 10:46 5, The spirit makes intercession for me in perfect prayer. Rom. 8:26; 6, I'm giving thanks well. 1 Corth 14:17; 7, Spirit bearing witness with my spirit. Rom 8:16-17; 8, Strengthens the inner man with might. Eph. 3:16-19; 9, Proof that I'm born again. Mark 16:17; 1st Corth 14:22,25; 10, Rest to my soul. Isa 28:11-12; 11, Given with interpretation of tongues delivers words of edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 1 Corth 14:3; and 5c; (of note, speaking in tongues with interpretion is equal to prophsey in edifying the church) I could easily continue, but with such overwhelming proof, I think the better question would be why should I NOT speak in tongues. I am going to paste this same post in Paul's blog. Yup yup. I rest my case on God's Word. Isaiah 66:2b; But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.
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Palerider, I guess we can't understand anything, especially since according to what you seem to be advocating, knowledge has "vanished away", and without knowledge, where is understanding? Because apparently the two go together. Ex 35:31 And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship; Pr 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; Isa 40:14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? Jer 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. Jer 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. Col 1:9 ¶ For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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8/27/2006 5:08 am |
I pray You'll be our eyes... And watch us where we go And help us to be wise.... In times where we dont know... Let this be our prayer, When we lose our way........................... Lead us to a place Guide us with Your Grace, Give us faith so we'll stay safe Amo te para Sempre Help us to learn Your Love ................. A house divided against itself will fall. A man, gets down on his knees and prays with his heart, to Jesus, thanking Him for what He has done for us. Blood poured out, spilt over the ears and the eyes of those who will see and hear. We thank Him that He has opened our eyes to see. Thankyou Jesus. The man arises from his knees... Praising God His Father, crying "Abba Father, I come to you"... And reads the scriptures, remembers the Word of God, poured into his heart and spirit. "As for me and my household, we shall serve the Lord all the days of our lives ". "Thankyou Jesus, thankyou Jesus, thankyou Jesus" "Rejoice in the Lord" He closes his eyes....... and words pour forth in a language he does not even yet understand himself. He speaks in 'tongues'. His mind battles with it. Its strange. Wierd. This is not normal. He goes back to the Word of God. Where is it, is it there ? Is it real ? What is happening ? Baptized in the Holy Spirit ? Evidence of speaking in tongues ? Mind games... head games..... which is which, what is what. The man gets dressed, goes to church.... Baptist church or was that an Anglican church perhaps it was a Church of Christ or an Assemblies of God church or The Salvation Army or even one of those fandangled charismatic pentacostal over the top happy clappy churches............... Messianic Jewish Church Evangelical church Lutheran church the pastor of one church will lead him through the scriptures, and answer the question that sits heavy in the mans heart "is this real, am I going crazy, what is happening... do I speak in tongues? Is it scriptural ? " NO. Says the pastor. It is satanic. It is not God And he will have scriptures to back up his words. NO. Says the next pastor. Those things have passed away. That was for the days of the Pentacost. YES. Says the pastor of the next church. It is Gods Holy Spirit. You have been given the gift of tongues. Be blessed. NO. Says the pastor of another church, unless of course, you speak it in church and someone can interpret it. YES. Says the pastor of yet another church... for without the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the evidence shown of that through speaking in tongues, you are not saved. The man panics.... The man gulps, pulls away, totally confused. "Oh Lord" he cries in his heart "help me to know. I love you so much and I do not want to be deceived". Back, on bended knees. His heart lurches and laments.... seeking the truth, for that is what his heart so very much desires. That night, the man dies. He sees the Father..... "Welcome my Son. I Love You." And he hears the angels sing, as he has never heard on earth. And all his prayers and questions of his heart, have been answered. ~ contending for the truth ~ ...eli...
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8/27/2006 7:37 am |
Oh that was goooooood Eli 
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8/27/2006 7:54 am |
Darth..... your mask is almost scary !! ****ZAP**** ~ contending for the truth ~ ...eli...
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8/27/2006 3:30 pm |
HisGlory, "I have spoken in tongues myself since I was a teen" ... Just what language(s) do you speak? You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
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8/27/2006 3:47 pm |
REPOST : (with a few corrections) A house divided against itself will fall. A man, gets down on his knees and prays with his heart, to Jesus, thanking Him for what He has done for us. Quiety he contemplates His Lord and Saviour. Blood poured out, spilt over the ears and the eyes of those who will see and hear. We thank Him that He has opened our eyes to see. Thankyou Jesus. The man arises from his knees... Praising God His Father, crying "Abba Father, I come to you"... And reads the scriptures, remembers the Word of God, poured into his heart and spirit. "As for me and my household, we shall serve the Lord all the days of our lives ". "Thankyou Jesus, thankyou Jesus, thankyou Jesus" "Rejoice in the Lord" He closes his eyes....... and soaks in every praiseworthy Word he can think of. His mind has been troubled lately though. He has come across some other brothers and sisters who are a bit 'wierd'.... they tell him, they speak in 'tongues'. His mind battles with it. Its strange. Wierd. He doesnt know what to think. He goes back to the Word of God. Where is it, is it there ? Is it real ? What is happening ? Baptized in the Holy Spirit ? Evidence of speaking in tongues ? Mind games... head games..... which is which, what is what. The man gets dressed, goes to church.... Baptist church or was that an Anglican church perhaps it was a Church of Christ or an Assemblies of God church or The Salvation Army or even one of those fandangled charismatic pentacostal over the top happy clappy churches............... Messianic Jewish Church Evangelical church Lutheran church the pastor of his church leads him through the scriptures, and answers the question that sits heavy in the mans heart "is this real,.. should I speak in tongues? Is it scriptural ? " YES. Says the pastor of the first church. Let me pray for you.... You will receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. For weeks, he 'practises' trying to speak in tongues - but nothing comes forth. He becomes frustrated. Lord knows, he tries so hard. So, he tries again. Up the front for altar call, to receive the prayer of praying in tongues. Still nothing..... and he beseeches God why. Finally, after months of being cajoled, prayed for, after months of trying to let the 'spirit flow', he grows dejected and jaded. He doesnt feel accepted really, not deep down. He puts up a good front, but now everyone else is speaking in tongues... and he is the odd one out. Eventually he moves churches again. To his relief, when he asks the next pastor, the question is soothed somewhat.... NO. Says the next pastor. Those things have passed away. That was for the days of the Pentacost. NO. Says the assistant pastor, unless of course, you speak it in church and someone can interpret it. He goes home, and finds peace is his again. Until, he flits across the Book of Acts, and again, his heart starts to ask the questions, although he has firmly solidified his belief trusting in the wholesome advice of the pastor of the church he now attends. The man gulps, pulls away, still a little confused. "Oh Lord" he cries in his heart "help me to know. I love you so much and I do not want to be deceived". He tries to silence the question that just wont quit. Back, on bended knees. His heart lurches and laments.... seeking the truth, for that is what his heart so very much desires. That night, the man dies. He sees the Father..... "Welcome my Son. I Love You." And he hears the angels sing, as he has never heard on earth. And all his prayers and questions of his heart, have been answered. ~ contending for the truth ~ ...eli...
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8/27/2006 4:27 pm |
You aint a man lol  We dont die as easily  ~ contending for the truth ~ ...eli...
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eli 777, I am so glad that someone else gets it. It is not for everyone so don't sweat it. If you have it, use it and praise the Lord. If you don't have it, praise the Lord cause you got another gift that is most likely of more importance than tongues which is one of the lessor gifts. NO GIFT IS REQUIRED FOR SALVATION! SALVATION IS REQUIRED TO RECEIVE THE GIFTS! Use the tools that the Lord gives to you and don't worry about the ones He doesn't give to you cause you don't need them to do the work He has for you to do. If you did, He would have given them to you. And at the same time, don't think that just because you don't need them that they are not necessary for someone else to do the work God has given them to do. It is not our place to decide who is or isn't to do what. That is God's job and He has been doing it just fine all this time without our help or input. He knows what He is doing and what His plan is, we don't, we are just told to do what He commands and to hold one another up in the process. Let us get about doing our job and leave His job to Him. Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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8/27/2006 10:10 pm |
eli 777, I am so glad that someone else gets it. It is not for everyone so don't sweat it. If you have it, use it and praise the Lord. If you don't have it, praise the Lord cause you got another gift that is most likely of more importance than tongues which is one of the lessor gifts. NO GIFT IS REQUIRED FOR SALVATION! SALVATION IS REQUIRED TO RECEIVE THE GIFTS! Use the tools that the Lord gives to you and don't worry about the ones He doesn't give to you cause you don't need them to do the work He has for you to do. If you did, He would have given them to you. And at the same time, don't think that just because you don't need them that they are not necessary for someone else to do the work God has given them to do. It is not our place to decide who is or isn't to do what. That is God's job and He has been doing it just fine all this time without our help or input. He knows what He is doing and what His plan is, we don't, we are just told to do what He commands and to hold one another up in the process. Let us get about doing our job and leave His job to Him. Amen and Amen anddddd Ammennnnnn !!!! I agree. muuuwwwaahhhhh !! ~ contending for the truth ~ ...eli...
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What exactly did Peter mean when he said this and quoted Joel 2:28? We find that the timing of these events are just before the great and dreadful Day of the Lord. The location where this takes place is Israel. The people being referred to are the Jews. Peter clearly says who he is speaking to and where he is. All of the book of Joel is referring to the nation of the Jews preceding Christ's return and I believe it is referring to the Tribulation period. Do you feel that this Professcy of Joel has been fulfilled or is being fulfilled now? Interesting question Sis, I hate to disagree with you here but re-read this passage. Peter specifically said that what the people had just witnessed was the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy concerning the last days. Also Joel said that these things would happen to all people, not just the Jews. When Christ left this earth He left with the promise that the comforter would come. And He did. God poured out His spirit on all people, Jews and Gentiles, rich and poor, free and slave, all who accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior receive His spirit, to this day. He has been poured upon you and He has been poured upon me, just as Joel prophesied. I have been looking back over this thread and want to try and see if I can help you to understand some of the things that I and others such as myself believe that you seem to have questions about. First off, I agree and know that there are those that teach that if you don't speak in tongues then you are not filled with the Holy Spirit. That simply isn't so. I was raised in such a denomination and no longer am associated with it. As for the gift of prophecy, I believe that part of the misunderstanding some may have concerning this gift is based on several interpretation factors, the first being who the prophecy effects and the second being time. In my experience, most of the prophecy I have heard in the church in my lifetime has dealt with that particular body of believers or members thereof and with a very short time span. Much as most of the prophecy's by the Old Testament prophets, such as Isaiah, Jeremiah had to do with the nation of Israel and the immediate future, or a specific person and their immediate future. It was not prophecy that pertained to the entire world such as that of John in Revelations and which looked into the indefinite future. As to why it is needed, the same reason it has always been needed, to get someone's or a group of someones' attention. When people turn a deaf ear to that still small voice of God then God will speak to them a little more audibly. Why does He so often send the message in tongues first and then to someone else to interpret? I don't know for sure, but possibly to confirm to the person(s) the message is meant for that it is Him speaking and He means business. Can I prove all of this by the Bible? Only in that this is the way it was in the prophecies of the Old Testament except for the speaking in tongues part. But I can tell you I have been both a messenger used by God and a recipient of a message so sent by God. Now about healing. The question was asked, why does God need people to heal? Well, He doesn't. It isn't a question of what God needs it is a question of what God wants and what people need. God wants obedience and faith from us. He wants us to do what He says, believing that it will bring about the results that He tells us it will, despite our logic and understanding that it isn't possible. In addition, even science today tells us that the human touch is healing. You are a mother and you know from experience that for some strange reason just holding your son or stroking his forehead when he is sick brings him some sort of relief. God made us that way. I totally agree with everything that linus had to say on this subject. God made us to be social creatures and this is just part of that. We need one another in this as in many other things. Many of the things that have been mentioned here are, in a much smaller way, part of the human instinct that every person that has objected to the gifts of the spirit on this blog have experienced and just don't realize. The difference is that once we are saved and have the Holy Spirit these instincts work on a grander scale. Discerning Spiritual Conditions for instance was mentioned. Each one of us have met people who we have instinctually known was bad news. That there was something evil about them. We discerned that they had an evil spirit. We could do this even when we lived in the world. We can do this even better now. Hearing God speak was also mentioned. When we were in the world, we each heard His call or we would not have ever come to know His saving grace. We know His voice now even better and learn it better every day. Seeing Visions was mentioned as well. Have you ever had a dream that you knew in your heart would come true if you didn't do something about it. Imavessal tells about someone going a different way to work one day because of something they saw or felt in their Spirit and it turned out that there was a really bad accident on their regular route. Strgzr talked about fillings of the Holy Spirit and I'm not sure that this is what he meant but this is what I have experienced which may be what he was talking about. As we grow in the Lord we are able to contain more of Him so we receive more of Him. The verse that says I must decrease and He must increase is literal. We release more of ourselves to Him and He is able to occupy and fill more of us. I noticed also that at one point the question was put, what did someone mean by being born again? This is simply another term for salvation and refers to Jesus conversation with Nicodemus, in John 3 where He says that unless a man is born again he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. Nicodemus asks how a man can be born again and Jesus tells him that a man must be born of water and of the Spirit. There has been some discussion about which version of the Bible is correct and what I want to say about that is none of them. That is why we must read and study them with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. God is infallible and His word is infallible but the men who wrote it all down and those who have translated it and re-translated it were none of them infallible. Only God knows what He said and what He meant by what He said. Only God knows what He wants us to glean from what we read and study. Only God is faithful and true to show you the path He wants us to follow. So I will close this long post with these words. First, Sheri, I apologize for being a blog hog once again and hope that you will forgive me but I also hope that I have been of some help to someone. And second, I want to make sure that everyone, once more, knows that I wish them to seek God concerning everything I have said, study His word and make sure that He is the only one that you follow. Don't believe anything anyone tells you just because you like them, or they sound convincing, or whatever. Not me, not Sheri not anyone. Take everything everyone tells you and take it to the Lord yourself, take it to the Bible yourself and let the Spirit either confirm or deny it for you. God bless you all, I love you all, Cecilia Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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8/28/2006 6:49 pm |
I came across this web site on tongues. It pretty much says it all. http://bigchurch.com You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
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8/28/2006 7:28 pm |
I remember many years ago, a person that always claimed to speak in tongues was doing the same thing as always in Church. Happens that one day a foreign minister came to speak and to visit. As he began to speak this person began to speak once again. All of a sudden the minister stopped. He interrupted the person and asked them what they were doing? The person replied, the Holy Ghost is moving me and I'm speaking in tongues. The minister replied in a loud concerning voice, "do you have any idea what it is you are saying?!?!!?" The person said yes, I'm praising God! The minister said, I've been a missionary in Colombia for 17 years, and the words you just spoke is there native language. The individual seem to be very pleased, for someone was validating their claim they been making all along. Then he said, your cursing God Almighty over and over and giving praise to satan!!! Maybe that is why, when one speaks in tongues in public, they are to have an interpreter present. Tongues are a evil wicked thing, a thing no one can control. Proof, be quite long enough and just listen to what comes out of peoples mouth. This whole present world that we live in today is filled with lies and slanders. I am most thankful God knows all!!!! I praise Him in my spirit, because God is a Spirit, the very idea we were created in His image. I desire to have nothing to do with this tongue business, I choose love and to try to be Holy as God is Holy. I am most thankful God has put that in my heart. Talk all you want and say whatever........just know this...God judges the things one may say also, as He judges the heart. Thank you Sheri for your post!! You are a blessed Friend
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8/28/2006 10:26 pm |
I came across this web site on tongues. It pretty much says it all. http://bigchurch.com   ...walks away chanting " Im not blonde, Im not blonde......" ~ contending for the truth ~ ...eli...
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row34442, I have heard this story many, many times over the past 30 odd years? Were you present at this incident? If not then what you are doing is simply spreading rumor that you cannot verify. Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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8/28/2006 10:45 pm |
I remember many years ago, a person that always claimed to speak in tongues was doing the same thing as always in Church. Happens that one day a foreign minister came to speak and to visit. As he began to speak this person began to speak once again. All of a sudden the minister stopped. He interrupted the person and asked them what they were doing? The person replied, the Holy Ghost is moving me and I'm speaking in tongues. The minister replied in a loud concerning voice, "do you have any idea what it is you are saying?!?!!?" The person said yes, I'm praising God! The minister said, I've been a missionary in Colombia for 17 years, and the words you just spoke is there native language. The individual seem to be very pleased, for someone was validating their claim they been making all along. Then he said, your cursing God Almighty over and over and giving praise to satan!!! Maybe that is why, when one speaks in tongues in public, they are to have an interpreter present. Tongues are a evil wicked thing, a thing no one can control. Proof, be quite long enough and just listen to what comes out of peoples mouth. This whole present world that we live in today is filled with lies and slanders. I am most thankful God knows all!!!! I praise Him in my spirit, because God is a Spirit, the very idea we were created in His image. I desire to have nothing to do with this tongue business, I choose love and to try to be Holy as God is Holy. I am most thankful God has put that in my heart. Talk all you want and say whatever........just know this...God judges the things one may say also, as He judges the heart. Thank you Sheri for your post!! You are a blessed Friend Understand My heart, understand My Love and then you shall discover the full measure of the Power of the Spirit of the Lord. For these are the weapons I have given unto you to do My Will on this earth." ~ contending for the truth ~ ...eli...
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8/29/2006 12:18 am |
I actually clicked that link toooo. ...walks away chanting " Im not blonde, Im not blonde......"
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8/29/2006 10:29 am |
Sorry folks, big church does not allow links to their web site. I was told I could cut & paste the information. Tom  You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
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Spuirley666, you have actually been present when an interpreter was able to speak the language that was being spoken in tongues and you were able to verify that what he interpreted was interpreted correctly as being evil? If not, why are you so quick to judge the one speaking in tongues when the one interpreting could just as easily be the one who is evil. Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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8/29/2006 11:12 pm |
Quoting >>>>> The minister replied in a loud concerning voice, "do you have any idea what it is you are saying?!?!!?" The person said yes, I'm praising God! The minister said, I've been a missionary in Colombia for 17 years, and the words you just spoke is there native language. The individual seem to be very pleased, for someone was validating their claim they been making all along. Then he said, your cursing God Almighty over and over and giving praise to satan!!! ___ Fable or truth..... it doesnt really matter...... ONE of those men were lying....... ................. I wonder which one.. There is also something about all this stuff that is so basic and sooo simple, I wonder why DO we complicate it ? - The Spirit of God has been poured out. - As HE wills it to be poured it out, so, it is. - Not our wil..... the Spirit of God has His will. - Our finite minds cannot, absolutely CANNOT know where whom how and why the totality and all the things of God. - Let God be God and work through each one of us with the gifts He has placed in us. - We have scripture to guide us into all truth..... but reading scripture does not mean we have all the truth. Without the Spirit, there is no life. WHEN ARE WE EVER GOING TO STOP BEATING UP ON EACHOTHERS GIFTS PEOPLE ?!! DO YOU NOT THINK THIS SADDENS THE HEART OF GOD ? If you pray or speak in tongues...... just do it cos God wants you to when He wants you to. Dont flaunt it on the street corners and wail in the churches like it makes you more Holy... it doesnt. Dont think you are more spiritual in Him cos you speak in tongues. It does not prove a thing to anyone, least of all Jesus about your holiness. Be respectful and reverential with the gift God has given you. You are not God. If you do not pray or speak in tongues.... dont condemn people who do. For the measure you judge with........ you know the scriptures. You also do not have the unmerited favour of knowing all things of the totality and measure of how the Spirit of God gives gifts. You are not God. Finally........ ................. the next time we call someone evil because they speak in tongues.... or the next time we say they are spiritually dead because they dont talk in tongues.... remember this.... **** We are made in God's image, and we are precious to Him...He loves us. **** ~ contending for the truth ~ ...eli...
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8/29/2006 11:38 pm |
Quoting >>>>> The minister replied in a loud concerning voice, "do you have any idea what it is you are saying?!?!!?" The person said yes, I'm praising God! The minister said, I've been a missionary in Colombia for 17 years, and the words you just spoke is there native language. The individual seem to be very pleased, for someone was validating their claim they been making all along. Then he said, your cursing God Almighty over and over and giving praise to satan!!! ___ Fable or truth..... it doesnt really matter...... ONE of those men were lying....... ................. I wonder which one.. There is also something about all this stuff that is so basic and sooo simple, I wonder why DO we complicate it ? - The Spirit of God has been poured out. - As HE wills it to be poured it out, so, it is. - Not our wil..... the Spirit of God has His will. - Our finite minds cannot, absolutely CANNOT know where whom how and why the totality and all the things of God. - Let God be God and work through each one of us with the gifts He has placed in us. - We have scripture to guide us into all truth..... but reading scripture does not mean we have all the truth. Without the Spirit, there is no life. WHEN ARE WE EVER GOING TO STOP BEATING UP ON EACHOTHERS GIFTS PEOPLE ?!! DO YOU NOT THINK THIS SADDENS THE HEART OF GOD ? If you pray or speak in tongues...... just do it cos God wants you to when He wants you to. Dont flaunt it on the street corners and wail in the churches like it makes you more Holy... it doesnt. Dont think you are more spiritual in Him cos you speak in tongues. It does not prove a thing to anyone, least of all Jesus about your holiness. Be respectful and reverential with the gift God has given you. You are not God. If you do not pray or speak in tongues.... dont condemn people who do. For the measure you judge with........ you know the scriptures. You also do not have the unmerited favour of knowing all things of the totality and measure of how the Spirit of God gives gifts. You are not God. Finally........ ................. the next time we call someone evil because they speak in tongues.... or the next time we say they are spiritually dead because they dont talk in tongues.... remember this.... **** We are made in God's image, and we are precious to Him...He loves us. **** You are right, it does greive the heart of God and we must remember to be careful of what we say about the Holy Spirit........
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8/30/2006 4:25 am |
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Has anyone else noticed that I seem to be invisible to the nay-sayers here? That they seem to avoid answering my questions like my posts don't even exist? Could this be because they cannot find answers that correspond with their thinking? This has been occurring since the beginning of this thread. I find this extremely interesting! Does anyone else? Of course they will probably ignore this post as well. Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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8/30/2006 3:28 pm |
When you have seen God cry...... ....... when you have felt His tears..... ......... when you have seen Him weep for His children ...............and felt His joy and true happiness that comes when one of his kids open the gift HE gives them, with a genuine smile on their face, adoringly saying "I luv u Dad"......and just accept the gift with a smile...no matter what it is. Remember the scriptures ? about our dads ? How much more, does our Heavenly Father give us the gifts that He wants to give us.... not as we demand.... Anyway, it wouldnt really feel like a gift if we all got the same exact gift, wrapped up exactly the same way in the same paper and ribbon. Yeahhhh Im gonna stand .... For God.!!! ~ contending for the truth ~ ...eli...
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8/30/2006 6:24 pm |
quoting eli 777 If you pray or speak in tongues...... just do it cos God wants you to when He wants you to. Don't flaunt it on the street corners and wail in the churches like it makes you more Holy... it doesn't. Don't think you are more spiritual in Him cos you speak in tongues. It does not prove a thing to anyone, least of all Jesus about your holiness. Be respectful and reverential with the gift God has given you. You are not God. If you do not pray or speak in tongues.... don't condemn people who do. For the measure you judge with........ you know the scriptures. You also do not have the unmerited favor of knowing all things of the totality and measure of how the Spirit of God gives gifts. You are not God. Finally........ ................. the next time we call someone evil because they speak in tongues.... or the next time we say they are spiritually dead because they don't talk in tongues.... remember this.... **** We are made in God's image, and we are precious to Him...He loves us. We all are already condemned, but by the grace of God do we have life. Ours is not to judge, that is reserved for our Lord and King, Jesus. My own views about the whole subject are what I stated in the beginning, tongues have ceased. That is how the Spirit has inspired me. To those who feel otherwise, my only suggestion is to be assured you follow scripture as best you can when "speaking". I have no other input, nor do I cast judgment, nor do I have animosity toward anyone. The only thing that matters is.......... Lift Christ up, for He is the lamb that was slain, He is our King that reins!!!
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8/30/2006 6:49 pm |
****The only thing that matters is.......... Lift Christ up, for He is the lamb that was slain, He is our King that reins!!! **** Amen Row, Amen to that. God bless you always, in richness and in warmth. ~ contending for the truth ~ ...eli...
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This is the conclusion that I have come to thus far: I look at the Holy Spirit like it's my conscience speaking to me. The small voice that I hear when I may be tempted to do something that I know is wrong, but that stickin-thinkin got in the way because of human nature. I believe this is how God speaks to me through His holy spirit. Perhaps, I take such a strong stand in the Written word now is because it IS sola scriptura, the Word. This is speaking specifically about the Word and what it says in the Bible. It matters not to me wether someone agrees with me or not, it matters not to me if they follow another denominational faith, however, it does matter to me when I feel a responsibility to stand for Truth when I see obvious error. I will stand for Truth. So many here and in our communities that we live in are dabbling in areas that are quite dangerous areas to dabble in specifically modern day prophets who have been book learned. I do not believe is and will not be swayed. This is why I don't and won't participate in certain Bible studies such as A Purpose Driven Life, Elizabeth Clare Prophet and A course in Miracles to name a few. This is what Prima scriptura relates to if you are following the other blog post. I do not believe these represent the God that I know. Also, a subject that I will not blog on because of my strong belief against such. My prayer for now is that God will protect and love everyone and through our interactions with others and the guidance of our Lord we will learn what we need to learn making it all a whole which we can ultimately put together in the end. I do not speak in tongues because I believe they did cease. If you do not agree that is ok with me. Sola Scriptura, Martin Luther didn't practice at one point in the reformation because he made exception by the writings of the German Luther Bible. Certainly, as we know this was for interpretation sake during the reformation, however, I was always taught in my Lutheran Sunday school classes that the bible was the erratic Word of God and that scriptures should not be added and taken away. I believe that taking it all into light the problem really exists when the Christian looking for more wisdom, more revelation and more Holy Spirit...there becomes a danger that cannot always be apparent this we get this rash of teachings from spiritual faith advisors telling us of new and better ways to seek the Holy Spirit or speak in tongues. A believer in Sola Scripta with this definition explained on the other blog means the Bible is the only source. You don't need instruction manuals to understand the Holy Spirit. Perhaps, it was Jesus dying on the Cross for our sins that is far more important. Perhaps the true message at the cross might have been love and grace. For sure, one day we will all be able to put this part and that part together to make that part whole. Perhaps, the answer lies in, "It is finished." (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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You know, I have noticed a lot of qoutations from sources other than the Bible here. Personally, I guess many of you would consider me ignorant, because I haven't studied other sources. I have a commentary and a Bible Dictionary and maybe 8 to 10 different versions of the Bible itself and that's it. I've never studied Greek or Hebrew or any other language for that matter. When I study or read the Bible I pray first, asking God to show me what He wants me to see in His word. To reveal His intent and purpose for me through the Holy Spirit that He gave me. To allow me to learn what He meant when He had the writer put those words down. This is where what knowledge or wisdom I have has come from. Not from any man or other books. Not that I don't read other books. But when I do I ask God to help me glean what He wants me to glean from them and always check what the book says with what the Bible says. Confirming what I believe God is telling me in the book by what He has said in the Bible. Perhaps this is where all the confusion has come in because people have been saying things like "Well according to the survey done by Joe Blow in the year Whatits A.D, the gift of tongues have vanished and according to John Smith in the year Whozits A.D the gift of prophecy vanished and King Kong said in his survey in the year Thingamajig A.D. that the gift of knowledge vanished." Well, you know, those folks weren't Gods people and what they said and what they wrote aren't Gods words like the Bible is as far as I know. Cause if they were then why isn't that stuff a part of the Bible? Now I would like to address the question that I think row 34442 brought up about people being on two sides of the fence and one having to be right and the other having to be wrong. Well, I can see where you are coming from because I know the old analogy about the fence. But I would like for you to think about something that I said to someone else recently. If you are on one side of a building, facing it and I am on the other side of that same building, facing it, are we going to see the same thing? Of course not? We are not even going to see each other. But if you and I both have an appointment there which one of us is right and which one of us is wrong? Neither, of course. What if our appointment is in the exact same office, will we both get there the exact same way? No, because we are coming from different directions. We have different information, we have different instructions, we have different data. But we will both end up in the same place. Christianity is like that. The path is narrow. It's name is Jesus Christ. He is the only way through. But after we accept Him and receive the Holy Spirit we are babes and we must grow and mature. We start out small and we gain as we grow. But who of us can contain all of God and what He has to offer? No one, and no one ever will. So we each get a part revealed to us and we get more as we grow but we can never get all. So who is to say that God does not reveal different parts of Himself to different people? That what He has revealed to you He has not revealed to me and what He has revealed to me He has not revealed to you? Who is to say that within all of us put together He is totally revealed? Perhaps that is why it takes all of us to make up the body of the church. Perhaps that is why each and every part is important. Perhaps that is why Satan keeps us at each other because he knows if we ever stop fighting each other and get together like we should it's all over for him right then and there. His time will be up. Perhaps if something like that were to happen the tribulation would not even have to occur. Perhaps this is what is meant by "prophecies shall fail". Because maybe the prophecies would not need to be fulfilled if the church truly became the church it was meant to be and Christians truly became one in Christ and we truly became overcomers and overcame Satan, taking back what we, mankind, handed over to him in the garden of Eden. Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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Redbird, I like your words: "We have different instructions, we have different data. This is why it is so important to stick with the bible as you say. But we will both end up in the same place. Hopefully we have one thing in common and that is we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we know where our hearts are and that we are going to heaven, because it is by grace, through faith not of any mans works that we are saved. Love your neighbor and your fellow man. Goodnight and thank you for coming again to visit, please come again. Heaven will be full of His glory...AMEN! (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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Sheri, I wasn't talking about you, sweetie, I was talking about those that I keep asking questions of and replying to their posts and they act like my post's aren't there. I specifically call them by name or quote them but they ignore my posts. I actually find it humorous. God Bless You, sis Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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9/1/2006 12:47 pm |
Just speaking from my heart, I have heard many teachings on the subject of speaking in tongues, and have been in many churches that speak in tongues, (just some background) not that it makes my comment any different than anyone elses. Can God have someone speak in a language they are not familiar with, as a sign, or as a wonder? Absolutely. Is their some who have missed the target, through their pride, for sure. Do some speak in tongues because a "man" or "woman" told them by faith they should, I am sure of it. Do some feel as though they are edified by doing it, yes, are you can be. But, my testimony is that it is the least of the gifts, that has caused so many divisions in the body. God is love, love is a gift, it is His presence in our hearts, we should abide in Him, and ask Him to shed His love abroad from our hearts. This can only be accomplished, by time spend alone with Him, in the secrect place of the most high. Being filled with the Holy Spirt is so much more than speaking in tongues. It is my hope and pray that we would enter into the secret place of the most high, and there find our dwelling place, in His presence, that is where I want to be. Lord, I just want to be with You. I just want to be where You are, living daily in Your presence, take me to the place where You are, I just want to be with You.
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Amen, brother, amen. God's love is what is most important and letting other's who don't know Him know about Him and that love. Ephesians 6:13 . . .and having done all, to stand
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I WILL BE VIEWING THE COMMENTS FOR APPROPRIATENESS PRIOR TO RELEASING THEM. WE WILL SEE IF THIS NEW FEATURE WORKS ON BC. Order in the house. (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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9/2/2006 9:41 am |
I gave up on the idea of speaking in tongues some years ago. I was called to preach in a language that people could understand.
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I speak in tongues and have for the last 15yrs, as for the gent who said they have ceased I remember praying to the Lord about them and constantly everyday for about a month till I finnally did. That was a testamony to me one of the things that helped me to realize how faithfull God is when we "ask for whatsoever we will in Christ name" ...seek and you shall find... ask and it will be given unto you...knock and it shall be opened...just as He knocked on our hearts till we opened to HIm and let Him in. So will we not with hold any spiritual gifts from us. I have not regretted it since there were actually some parts in the bible that I did not understand till I did such as "groaning in the spirit" I would never have understood it. P probably if I didnt. And again as for the gent who saids they are needed when is it that we dont need help in prayer? The word says that our spirit prays for us as sometimes we dont know what to pray for or about. We always need the spirit to pray for us. I didnt mean to take this in another direction if I have. But I cannot begin to explain in words how much praying in the spirit has and will help me and how "litterally I am energized by it" how I feel the presence of God when I do. And how the spirit utter groanings that cannot be espressed and to travail and give birth to spiritual things as the Lord allows you to do. This is a true gift that is needed in the body of Christ that my words cant come close to explain how much God wants us to speak to HIm. Gbu
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I speak in tongues and have for the last 15yrs, as for the gent who said they have ceased I remember praying to the Lord about them and constantly everyday for about a month till I finnally did. That was a testamony to me of one of the things that helped me to realize how faithfull God is when we "ask for whatsoever we will in Christ name" ...seek and you shall find... ask and it will be given unto you...knock and it shall be opened...just as He knocked on our hearts till we opened to HIm and let Him in. So will He not with hold any spiritual gifts from us. I have not regretted it since there were actually some parts in the bible that I did not understand till I did such as "groaning in the spirit" I would never have understood it probably if I didnt. And again as for the gent who saids they are not needed I ask you when is it that we dont need help in prayer? They only cease because men fell to do them. So for the most part they have ceased but not because we dont need them. The word says that our spirit prays for us as sometimes we dont know what to pray for or about. We always need the spirit to pray for us. I didnt mean to take this in another direction if I have. But I cannot begin to explain in words how much praying in the spirit has and will help me and how "litterally I am energized by it" how I feel the presence of God when I do. And how the spirit utter groanings that cannot be espressed and to travail and give birth to spiritual things as the Lord allows you to do. This is a true gift that is needed in the body of Christ today that my words cant come close to explain how much God wants us to speak to HIm in this way. Gbu
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I was called to preach in a language that people could understand. I agree that preaching must be done so that people understand what is being said, otherwise, how can they say "Amen" to it, and how will they be edified? But sometimes when I'm praying, apparently my spirit has more to say than my mind can grasp, as my spirit and my speech take flight in praise of God, in a language that my mind can see the syntax in, but which is often beyond my ability to translate in terms of data. The conversation of the Holy Spirit within me simply leaves data in the dust. But I am more than edified, and to deny what I've been given would be a great loss, and to deny the giver, blasphemous.
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just to add this when the foriengers from other countries heard them who had been in the upper room it is recorded that each man heard them speak in thier own language. Dont underestimate the power of God and think that He is only capable of given us one language and our own language. The Holy Spirit is a helper. We need Gods help to accomplish anything. And if we have faith or if He wanted too God can even cause us to preach in one language but cause many to hear thier own. All power belongs to God.
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Hello Sherri, I do not speak in tongues, not even in church. I work with prisoners and their families, so this is the group of society that I pray with, outside of church. They would be really frightened if I started unintellable utterings. Also I haven't ask The Lord Jesus for this gift, which I believe you have to do, to allow The Spirit to do His work in you. I do hope this is helpful to you. Prisonerworker.
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9/6/2006 10:58 am |
Yes I speak in tongues and yes I am of Pentecostal faith . I cant understand however why people want to argue about this subject.The only way anoyone is going to get the true answer is to study the scriptures..
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9/7/2006 5:53 am |
I always took that as face value when I read it about tongues.. They needed to communicate with others who spoke differently.. I guess I have always seen it as... First there was the tower of Babel Then God UN_Babelled lol
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Hello again, Sherri, Sorry I have not replied sooner. I heard this first hand from the lady that asked. Divina, a vicar's wife, did not speak in tongues and she felt deprived by not having this gift. So she went off on her own. Prayerfully; she got close up and personal with God. She told Him, how she felt and asked what He was going to do about her feelings. Nothing, zilch, nada, no answer was the stern reply. But she did not give up. Like the widow, begging the hard judge for justice. She was persitance and after several hours of hard heartfelt prayer, God granted her heart's desire. She has been speaking in tongues, for over 20 years now. Derek.
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Hello again, Sherri, Sorry I have not replied sooner. I heard this first hand from the lady that asked. Divina, a vicar's wife, did not speak in tongues and she felt deprived by not having this gift. So she went off on her own. Prayerfully; she got close up and personal with God. She told Him, how she felt and asked what He was going to do about her feelings. Nothing, zilch, nada, no answer was the stern reply. But she did not give up. Like the widow, begging the hard judge for justice. She was persitance and after several hours of hard heartfelt prayer, God granted her heart's desire. She has been speaking in tongues, for over 20 years now. Derek. (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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One year later... Here is my understanding now. It is often assumed that all those who "speak in tongues," whether publicly or privately, are either "Charismatic" or "Pentecostal." But this is not the case. I did a blog post "Do you speak in tongues" I learned allot. Since that post I feel like I learned about all I can and I would like to share what I have learned since last year like I didn't beat the subject to death last year and state my views for consideration. 1. "The cessationist position argues that there are no miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit today. Gifts such as prophecy, tongues, and healing were confined to the first century, and were used at the time the apostles were establishing the churches and the New Testament was not yet complete." This was the view that I knew from childhood and my blog did reflect this in my replies. It is interesting to reflect back after a year. Let me continue now. 2. "Pentecostal refers to any denomination or group that traces its historical origin back to the Pentecostal revival that began in the United States in 1901, and that holds the following doctrines: (1) All the gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the New Testament are intended for today; (2) baptism in the Holy Spirit is an empowering experience subsequent to conversion and should be sought by Christians today; and (3) when baptism in the Holy Spirit occurs, people will speak in tongues as a ‘sign’ that they have received this experience." 3. "Charismatic, on the other hand, refers to any groups (or people) that trace their historical origin to the charismatic renewal movement of the 1960s and 1970s and that seek to practice all the spiritual gifts mentioned in the New Testament (including prophecy, healing, tongues, interpretation, and distinguishing between spirits). Among charismatics there are differing viewpoints on whether baptism in the Holy Spirit is subsequent to conversion and whether speaking in tongues is a sign of baptism in the Spirit." 4. "In the 1980s a third renewal movement arose, a movement called The Third Wave by missions professor C. Peter Wagner at Fuller Seminary (he referred to the Pentecostal renewal as the first wave of the Holy Spirit’s renewing work in the modern church, and the charismatic movement as the second wave). Third Wave people encourage the equipping of all believers to use New Testament spiritual gifts today and say that the proclamation of the gospel should ordinarily be accompanied by "signs, wonders, and miracles," according to the New Testament pattern. They teach, however, that baptism in the Holy Spirit happens to all Christians at conversion and that subsequent experiences are better called "fillings" or "empowerings" with the Holy Spirit. Though they believe the gift of tongues exists today, they do not emphasize it to the extent that Pentecostals and charismatics do." 5. "There is yet another position, held by a vast number of evangelicals who think of themselves as belonging to none of these groups. These people have not been convinced by the cessationist arguments that relegate certain gifts to the first century, but they are not really convinced by the doctrine or practice of those who emphasize such gifts today either. They are open to the possibility of miraculous gifts today, but they are concerned about the possibility of abuses that they have seen in groups that practice these gifts. They do not think speaking in tongues is ruled out by Scripture, but they see many modern examples as not conforming to scriptural guidelines; some also are concerned that it often leads to divisiveness and negative results in churches today. They think churches should emphasize evangelism, Bible study, and faithful obedience as keys to personal and church growth, rather than miraculous gifts. Yet they appreciate some of the benefits that Pentecostal, charismatic, and Third Wave churches have brought to the evangelical world, especially a refreshing contemporary tone in worship and a challenge to renewal in faith and prayer… "the open but cautious position." Personally, when I read each of the five views, I find something compelling in each one. I find myself almost being convinced by the arguments presented for each view. At times, I wish scripture were clearer on these issues. After carefully thinking through, and searching the Scriptures, I have come to the conclusion that my own understanding lies closest to "Open but Cautious". I post this not to defend my personal position, but rather merely to point out that there are those, like myself, who hold to these different positions and who at the same time consider themselves to be good Christians. I do not personally speak in tongues, either in private or in public. However, my interpretation of Scripture is essentially the same as many who do. I believe the gift of tongues is valid for today. I also believe that the gift of tongues may be legitimately used as a "private prayer language." In my opinion, the only reason I do not have a "private prayer language" is because God, distributes each gift to each one "just as he determines" (1 Cor. 12.11), has not chosen to give me this particular gift. (¯`•♥•´¯) ¤`•.♥.•´ ¤ (¯`•♥•´¯)
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7/21/2009 2:34 am |
hi there, i was saved when i was 11 years old. the one and only time i was unable to stay on my feet, i hit the floor speaking in another language, not knowing anything about the speaking in tongues thing, I am not a real fan of praying out aloud in church in tongues , i believe that is is a gift from god and the spirit prays the perfect will through us, as our hearts are decietfully wicked and even when we think we are praying his will we useually fail, we are useless on our own and i have found that without this gift i would probably have given up, Take care,
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. The importance of the apostles and prophets is shown in Ephesians 2:20, "Having been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone." Once carpenters lays foundation for a building you have laid the foundation, there is no need to do it again.
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