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RockyG666 63M
1749 posts
5/21/2014 12:05 pm

Last Read:
6/28/2014 6:36 am

believing in the trinity is NOT required

first, let me say that YES, i believe that god, jesus and the friendly ghost are one. i would have a hard time understanding most of the bible if i did not believe this.

HOWEVER, the bibe NEVER tells us of the trinity let alone requires it.

the ONLY thing we require is jesus....and even that is arguable.

the bible says that christ died for all men?

the rest is just window dressing.


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/21/2014 2:55 pm

Ok, stick to that one if you like.
I want the full package.

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/21/2014 4:08 pm

that IS the whole package.


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/21/2014 7:45 pm

because the original greek is really very NOT specific. no man comes to god but through jesus, but they don't have to want to?

also, whosever shall come to the son (john 3:16) is NOT exclusive. ie: whosever comes and everyone else too.

i pray for universalism every day and night. our god is powerful enough to forgive EVERYONE if he wants to.

i believe we need to accept christ, but i pray we don't. i love a lot of people that won't let god in.


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/22/2014 12:50 am

God HAS ALREADY FORGIVEN EVERYONE on the Cross of Jesus. The depth is payed.
Now EVERYONE has to accept the depth has been payed. Jesus did it for all mankind, but if ANYONE don't trust that He payed it in full, then they can't receive it.

I can pay all of your study loans for you, but if you don't believe it has already been done, you will either keep on paying it off - no regard they tell you it's all paid in full - or ask them to forget to get any of it back.

Your praying for we don't need to accept Christ for being saved, is like wanting to cross the Pacific Ocean and praying for it to dry out, instead of getting a ticket for airplane or boat.

You say you love them. If Christ is in you, why don't you bring Christ to them? Show them who He is by being a man who Christ lives inside?
People are tired of words and religiosity. They want the real stuff.
A Christian who lives an open life that shows who he really is, and not only what he want others to see. A man who shows how Jesus is an important part of his life, because without he would be lost. Just like everybody else.
Not a man showing false "humility" by saying again and again that he is no good at all. Unable to do anything.
We are to do our very best - and He created us with the skills to do so - and then leave the rest to Him. So do it!
But remember to get out of the way when He starts moving. Don't interfere in His doings when not asked to do. You will mess it all up.

Remember:All you were asked to do is to love like Him.

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/22/2014 7:11 am

"Jesus did it for all mankind, but if ANYONE don't trust that He payed it in full, then they can't receive it. "

first, it is a D E B T. drop the H

B.) the bible does NOT say anyone that don't trust that jesus paid the debt in full can not receive it. it only says that those who trust WILL receive.

#3. does not god love us ALL enough to save us ALL?

+ is the blood of christ NOT strong enough?


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/22/2014 9:43 am

    Quoting RockyG666:
    "Jesus did it for all mankind, but if ANYONE don't trust that He payed it in full, then they can't receive it. "

    first, it is a D E B T. drop the H

    B.) the bible does NOT say anyone that don't trust that jesus paid the debt in full can not receive it. it only says that those who trust WILL receive.

    #3. does not god love us ALL enough to save us ALL?

    + is the blood of christ NOT strong enough?

Firstf you have any problems with my spelling, contact Google Translate.

B. You miss my point: I am not talking of the Biblical part of Salvation. There is enough for everyone!
I am not talking of the part of God. Jesus already did what was necessary for bringing Salvation.

I am talking of the human part. If the human don't trust what Jesus did for Salvation, the human will never come to gets what was paid for him.
In other words: If I don't trust you for being able to make good crafts, I would never hire you for making my house. Are you the right man for making the carpentry on my house? I better find some other solution...

We are to believe in God; to trust Him. Trust comes from Testimonies and by knowing in person.
Jesus said: "Sin, that you don't know me".

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/22/2014 9:48 am

- by the way: God is written with a capital letter "G".
- and forgive is with a "f", not a "g".
Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/22/2014 12:13 pm

i AM talking about the saving grace of god.

that is the REAL message of all of it.

again, the rest is window dressing.

and god doesn't give a crap about capital letters


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/22/2014 3:55 pm

- wrote the man who likes to correct others for their grammar and spelling...?

If God intended to answer your prayers for your friends, He would have to get unholy first.
"Holy, Holy, Holy is our God".

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/22/2014 6:56 pm

spelin iz opshunal. i just can't stand when people don't know the difference between werds.

god can answer any prayers he wants.


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/23/2014 1:00 am

Which means you - despite your recent theological study - don't know why "sin" and "Holy/holiness" is crucial words when we talk about eternity and having a relationship with God.

Well, I think you should contact the people behind that study and demand your money back. I have to assume too, they didn't explain to you what the phrase "He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow" means?

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/23/2014 6:52 am

again, i do not believe in unitarianism, i only pray and hope for it.

but it DOES sound more like the nature of god than the exclusivist stance.

sojo. your theology makes catholicism look lax.


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/23/2014 3:30 pm

Quote: "The term Catholic means universal, meaning that it is for all people Jew or Gentile."

Lax: "LAX is the airport identifier code for Los Angeles International Airport".

Agreed. Sometimes I have to give up explaining people the most simple things.
Not my fault.

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


gavinLS 69M
410 posts
5/26/2014 9:12 pm

I hate to say it but I'm forced to agree with Rocky on the basic discussion of the requirement to believe in the Trinity. (Although I draw the line at any assertion of Pluralism; I.e.: The belief that one can be saved even if they don't believe in and/or accept Christ. --But that discussion is an offshoot from Rocky's original post, and I don't want to deviate here.)

This convo got off the track when people assumed that accepting Christ and believing in the Trinity are the same thing. Personally I hold to the Trinity view as most Christians do today, which entails that both Father and Son are co-equal. But it's entirely possible to interpret Christ as the "Son of God" -and therefore something greater than human -but not necessarily "a/the" "god/God" Himself, and still agree that Christ is/was perfect and sent by the Father to be sacrificed.

The Trinity concept holds that each entity of the Godhead refers to one and the same being. In early Christianity, Christians were divided on whether Christ was equally divine with the Father. They all agreed that He is the Son and that we must believe in Him, His sacrifice, and accept His guidance, but his divinity (or level of divinity) was in question.

After Constantine legalized Christianity and made it the state religion in 315 AD, one bishop, (from Turkey if memory serves me right,) named Arian was teaching that Christ was not divine, or not divine in the same sense that the God of Abraham was. Even today, there are still a few Christian denominations/sects that ascribe to Arianism. (Most notably the Jehovah's Witnesses, but there are other more obscure groups too. In fact, some groups even hold that He was born mortal, but was lead to find His path to divinity and His mission on Earth. E.g.: The Unity Church holds that view. -Not to be confused with the Unitarians or Unitarian Universalists.)

As Roman Emperor and self-declared head of the Christian church, Constantine was compelled to bring it into universal ('cathos", or 'catholic') compliance. The debate over Arianism was causing a schizm.

Eventually, he convened the very first ecumenical Council (Nicea in 325 AD. --Resulting in the Nicene Creed) to settle the matter.

At the time, the book we now call the "Holy Bible" still didn't even exist, and selected holy works varied by region throughout Christendom. Many of the reports, epistles and stories existed, but their selection, use, and acceptance could vary drastically from one small haven to the next. Some regions still kept the Old Testament among their writings, and others didn't. And of the writings that related to Christ and the New Covenant, one region may have favored 20 individual documents, while the next town down the road adhered to over a hundred.

At the end of the Council of Nicea, it was resolved that Jesus Christ and the Father were "of the same substance" and therefore equally divine. Thus, Arianism was officially rejected. But the Nicene Creed view was refuted and re-adopted numerous times for the next 70 to 80 years depending on the dominant views and whichever Roman Emperor was in power at any given time.

Things finally settled down, not surprisingly, around the time when the first universally agreed upon collection of holy works was decided upon at the Council of Carthage in 397 AD and became dominant throughout Christendom. (Altho Coptic Christians in Egypt held out for reasons unrelated to this discussion.) That collection was deemed by Church leaders as "canon" (A "canon" was a measuring stick, and it was felt that these 66 writings were best suited to show what all other writings should be compared to when evaluating them. And one should note that the actual published number of writings was 80 due to the fact that the Church Elders did see fit to include 14 deemed "Very Good" but not quite "Canon" writings found among some OT versions and which later came to be known as the Apocrypha, and which were later removed from Protestant Bibles during the Protestant Reformation.)

At the Council of Carthage, one of the most difficult questions the Church Elders had to settle regarded the inclusion of the Gospel of John. Some wanted to leave it out because it's not synoptic with the other Gospels they'd agreed upon. Others lobbied in favor of it's inclusion because out of all the Gospel stories, none so favorably depict Jesus Christ as divine and sovereign member of the Godhead like the Gospel of John does.

I'm not advocating for the view that one should reject the Trinity concept! I'M A TRINITARIAN MYSELF!!

I'm merely pointing out that we can't "prove" that it's a requirement for salvation. John 6:16 merely says we must acknowledge and believe in Christ as the Son. It does NOT say we MUST to believe He is ALSO the Father. My personal opinion is that John 14: 7-11 does that much better. (I.e: "If you have seen me, you have seen the father," etc.")

However, in John 14, I again can't "prove" that Christ was not speaking metaphorically and/or about Himself in generic terms, in a way that anyone might have claimed that God lives through themselves.

Just some background poop on the matter, and my humble opinions.

As for me, I'm sticking with Trinitarianism.

GBU all,

Gavin


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/27/2014 7:50 am

oh man. gavin just threw up ALL over my blog.

good thing he is correct.

there are a BUTTLOAD of things that people accept as part of the gospel when they are told them in sunday school or even sermons that have absolutely NO biblical basis.

the trinity is THE biggest one. the original translation of the kjv even went as far as to fraudulently insert mention of the trinity in 1 John 5. ALL of scholastica agrees this passage is NOT scripture, and yet the kjv CONTINUES to include it. even the newkjv includes it.

but again. the trinity has NOTHING to do with our salvation. it is just a clarification. it is a better way of understanding god and christ.

but it is NOT a requirement for salvation no matter how you want to slice it.


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/27/2014 7:53 am

also i had responded to sojo and called him a pharisee but BC banned my comment. on my OWN blog? that is facism man.

they don't do SQUAT here for site maintenance, but they get all hitler on my on my own blog?

dudes, bc. you useless lazy boils on the butt of society:

DO YOUR JOB AND MAINTAIN YOUR WEBSITE!!!!!
you don't have time to be picking nits on MY blog.


gavinLS 69M
410 posts
5/27/2014 7:41 pm

Thank you Rocky.

Also, to Rocky and everyone else, I apologize for my typo error near the end of my above comment, in the paragraph where I begin with: "I'm merely pointing out that we can't 'prove'.....". In the second sentence I typed a citation for John 6: 16, which (as I think most folks know) was a typo, and should have been John 3: 16.

GBU all,

Gavin


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/28/2014 6:27 am

Your comment has been denied due to the following reason: Banned Topics (hate/weapons/under age). Feel free to submit a new comment.


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/28/2014 9:44 am

As I told gunrunner recently: You can call me what so ever you like (that was not a permission) except from early up in the morning!

If you take a closer look at what Garvin wrote, you will find out he didn't say there is no trinity. Believing in God (trusting God) takes to get to know God.
How can you truly trust in someone you don't know?

You have to get to know God (them). So one way or the other, you have to believe in a trinity.
Muslims believe there is only one God. No trinity.
So be careful how you twist the belief in the trinity...

-Just because you don't understand or comprehend my writings on the subject, doesn't mean I am wrong. I thought you knew that?

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/28/2014 8:13 pm

sojo, you dipwad.

i BELIEVE in the trinity. i NEVER said id doesn't exist.

i said it isn't a requirement for salvation, and it is not.


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/29/2014 1:56 am

So you are not a Muslim?

Why is it then so important for you to make the statement of "Believing in the trinity is not required for Salvation"?

And by the way: leave the name calling to gunrunner. It doesn't suit you, 666.

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/29/2014 2:09 am

So you are not a Muslim?

Why was it then so important for you to write "Believing in the trinity is not required for Salvation?

- And by the way: leave the name calling to gunrunner. It doesn't suit you, 666.

Blessings


Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/29/2014 2:54 pm

heck no. i dislike mooslims intensely.

i have been studying the bible in graduate school for the last 4 years. i am almost a pastor.

it is SO important that people know the trinity has nothing to do with salvation because christians are fighting with each other over it.

you dipwad


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/29/2014 5:08 pm

    Quoting RockyG666:
    heck no. i dislike mooslims intensely.

    i have been studying the bible in graduate school for the last 4 years. i am almost a pastor.

    it is SO important that people know the trinity has nothing to do with salvation because christians are fighting with each other over it.

    you dipwad

Dawpid. Why so surprised; Jesus predicted it would be that way.

By the way: Jesus is talking bout His Father, and He talks about the Spirit that He would send "because I will not leave you comfortless".

"When the Comforter is come, He will...."

So Jesus talks about the Father; the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I think we don't understand the importance of the Trinity, just like we don't understand what the spiritual importance of Baptism is. We are still discussing when; how and why.
I just know one thing about it: Jesus told us to Baptise and to teach. He never gave an order just for giving an order or just for fun...

Selling out of the important things leads us to eventually selling out everything...

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/29/2014 5:11 pm

- So what was your reason for stating "believing in the Trinity is not required for Salvation?

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/29/2014 5:14 pm

2) "the ONLY thing we require is jesus....and even that is arguable."

Start your argumentation...?

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/29/2014 5:17 pm

you are pigheadeder than strong defender dude.

i know the bible better n moses. believe what you will.

god forgives you


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/29/2014 5:48 pm

...Means you don't know??

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/29/2014 7:11 pm

you are pigheader than strong defender and not as bright.


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
5/30/2014 2:42 am

..... means you don't know!! Okay.

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
5/30/2014 8:27 am

dude. i know the bible better than moses.

you are as thick as a brick and were raised on misconceptions. you keep confusing these with scripture, and try to twist scripture to say things it never was intended to say.

to have a successful debate, both parties need to be informed.


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
6/1/2014 10:56 am

blasphemy!!!!


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
6/7/2014 10:13 am

all of these things are very true.

the original point is that people were fighting about the trinity and claiming that those that did not believe in the trinity exactly 'so' are not christian.

a) that is FALSE

b) accusing siblings in god falsely is SIN

c) god is NOT about sweating the little stuff


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
6/9/2014 10:59 pm

    Quoting  :





Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


RockyG666 63M
1357 posts
6/22/2014 12:58 pm

hi angel.

just for clarification, i hold to the trinity, it is how i got to know god and it works for me. my point is that it isn't required.