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Urban_Hermit 68M
152 posts
4/8/2020 8:48 am
Pre, Mid or Post Trib?


You have Pre-Tribulational, Mid-Tribulational and Post-Tribulational positions.

Which one is it? I used to be pre-Tib because many were preaching it and had not studied it, but then I thought the antichrist would sign the treaty in the middle of the Tribulation and then we would know who he was and get whisked out, (1 Thes 4:16-17; 2 Thes 2:3).

So then I thought it was Mid-Trib because wouldn’t we know who the antichrist was then? The problem is I didn’t think about the timing of 1 Thes 4:16-17.

2 Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the of perdition;

Another problem with Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib and Post-Trib is that no one knows the day nor the hour, so if the antichrist signed the treaty we'd be able to countdown the days. But if Scripture says no one will know the day nor the hour then that door is closed also. After the church age is over there's no indication that the church itself is raptured immediately, it just says the church age is over, He removes His Holy Spirit from the world (not from individuals) and ceases to convict the world of sin, then God deals again with Israel like He did in the Old Testament. Once the Holy Spirit is removed this will make the allowance for Jesus to return.

2 Thes 2 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way

1 Thes 4:16-17 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord

However there are a few verses that seem to indicate we go through the Tribulation but how can that be if we are to come back with Jesus at the end of the Tribulation?

Here are some verses that indicate we go through the Tribulation.

Mat 14:29-31 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

So this is saying after the Tribulation and so is this verse below

Rev 7:14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

These verses also say we go through the tribulation.

Rev 20:4-6 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

This verse also says that immediately AFTER the tribulation and sends His angels to gather the elect.

Mat 24:29-31 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

But we are not destined for God's wrath which comes on the world at the end of the Tribulation. However Satan has always persecuted Christians and Jews for millennia.

1 Thes 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ

However we all return soon after because God's wrath is poured out upon the earth and Jesus comes back 'with His saints' to destroy the antichrist & the world's armies.

1 Thes 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Conclusion: We go through most or all of the Tribulation but as God is about to pour out His wrath at the end we get taken up to be with the Lord and then come back with Him in victory.

For there is one resurrection for the righteous and one for the damned. Therefore both saved Jews and saved Gentiles have to be resurrected (1 Thes 4:16-17) at the same time which seems to be after the Tribulation.

What is your conclusion? Have I missed anything? If I have it must be proven by Scripture and I will accept it. I'm happy to learn.

Judgement Day will be interesting.


Urban_Hermit 68M
317 posts
4/8/2020 8:50 am

God bless

Judgement Day will be interesting.


Urban_Hermit 68M
317 posts
4/11/2020 7:45 pm

    Quoting  :

Yes Mat 24 is very pertinent I believe, it's the Olivet Discourse, also in Luke. I feel it's the 'birth pangs' and the beginning of sorrows era coming upon us. V 29 says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days."

Also Luke 21: 11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

I agree the words of Jesus are to be heeded and God will never contradict Himself. However trying to piece it all together is sometimes challenging.

In Daniel 12: 4 it says, "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase.”

Things are sealed up till the end of time but it would seem at the end of time things are going to become revealed to us, at least that's how I'm understanding it.

Although friend who is pre-trib just posted this verse to me

Luke 21: 36 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

This verse also gives me something to think about.

Thanks for your comment.

God bless

Judgement Day will be interesting.


Urban_Hermit 68M
317 posts
4/11/2020 7:48 pm

I'm wondering what's happening. Others have posted comments, I have not deleted any and yet they are now missing. Strange.....

Judgement Day will be interesting.


Bariki 85F
41 posts
4/15/2020 3:45 am

Hi Urban.

Read your post and can only say you are missing quite some things.

E.g It seems like you think we are returning with Jesus as he comes back for the final battle. "WE" are not, but his saints. His saints are mentioned in Revelation.

Bariki


Truth is truth even if no one believes it.
A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it