Close Please enter your Username and Password
Reset Password
If you've forgotten your password, you can enter your email address below. An email will then be sent with a link to set up a new password.
Reset Link Sent
Password reset link sent to
Check your email and enter the confirmation code:
Don't see the email?
  • Resend Confirmation Link
  • Start Over
If you have any questions, please contact Customer Service

Tropical_Man 67M
6573 posts
8/25/2011 7:07 am
Charismatic Elitism...true or false?

The Gospel of Christ is simple. If it were not, it wouldn't be for everyone.Unfortunately man has this way about them where they try and add this and that to everything until they have something that pleases them.

There is a scripture that states, do not put new wine in old wine skins. It is true of the new Covenant of Christ. You do not put the new Covenant in the wrappings of a defunct old Covenant.

There is always something going on with the Charismatics to appear as a new thing, when the word says there is nothing new under the sun. You will hear of deceptions such as the Original Church understood the word of God better than people can today. The problem is that, it was not even written in that day.

If you look at the New Testament after the Gospels, the writings are always directed at fellowships to correct and exhort. before the gentiles were included, they were mired in their own pagan humanistic beliefs. So there was a lot to overcome in their understanding of the newly formed Christianity. On the other hand the Jews who had been in Jewish law had to totally learn a new Covenant that in effect was the exact opposite of what Judaism is. In Judaism, you do this, God does that. In Christianity, we are and we have, all because of what Jesus did and nothing to do with what we can do. Its simple. Everything because of what he did.

Charismatics point to the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. They point to gifting of the Spirit. Particularly prayer language. I have no problem with how they view the gifts. I was in assembly of God for 30 years. I get it. But where do you see the Holy Spirit ever pointing at himself? Where do you ever see the Holy Spirit making a big deal about gifting? You do not. The Holy Spirit always points towards Jesus.

If you read in Corinthians you will see how vile the people were and always under major correction. As a matter of fact even in the fellowship meetings they were out of control. Paul had to address these issues continually.

Now why would I call the Charismatic movement elitism? Its pretty simple really. If you look at the scriptures after the Gospels you will not find what they preach. Christianity begins after the atonement of Christ on the cross. In Hebrews 9-22 it deals with no covenant can be made without the shedding of blood. So the new Covenant came into place with the shedding of Christs' blood and the veil was rent in the Holy of Holies as a sign.

40 days later, the promise of the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost. But here is when elitism comes into play. All of a sudden, now we have two steps "supposedly". Salvation and then the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that the Charismatics will tell you is an empowerment of God. The word says the Holy Spirit is sent to the believer to comfort us and to teach us all things.Holy Spirit means "anointing". The Anointing of God was given at Pentecost to the born again believers.

Ok here is the issue, on one hand we have the born again believers, and on the other is the born again believers who have the spirit. So now we have the Spiritual Haves and Have Nots'. So one group is now saying that, yes you are saved, but until you are filled with the Holy Spirit in a separate experience.

Let me give you an example. For every one person I can find that practices tithing and experiences an abundance, I can show you another dozen that faithfully practice it and greatly struggle. Why would that be? it doesnt matter that Jesus and his disciples did not teach it or practice it. Nor that the poor never did it. God is going to do what he wishes in each persons life.

Now if the baptism in the Holy Spirit is indeed a second step in a persons life,why can I find just as many non charismatics as well as charismatics having affairs etc. Just plain struggling in life? There has to be an answer right? one supposedly has more power than the other, yet struggle just as much.

Here is the scriptural kicker. God is very adamant about sharing important things. Why, outside of Pentecost, in the context of after the atonement on the cross is this 2nd grace as people call it; basically non-existent in the scriptures? It addresses the gifting. It addresses the issues and responsibilities with the gifts. But it does not promote the need for this second act.

Perhaps because Pentecost was the out pouring and not the ongoing. Perhaps because when a person receives Christ by faith that the Holy Spirit now resides in him, and as before the Holy Spirit had not been given. perhaps it is because when you get saved, you have the ability to operate in any of the gifts as needed. Individually and corporately.

Why is it, when the Holy Spirit points to Jesus, that the people in love with gifting point towards the gifts? That is elitism working hard in a persons life.

A lot of things happened at the cross. If you can not find something going on after the cross in the scriptures, then it was taken care of at the cross. You will find no born again believer having a generational curse broken off of them after the cross. it happened at salvation. Jesus doesn't half step. You will not find one place where a born again believer has a demon cast out of him. Not one. You will find a place where as people were being saved, demons came out. But that is it.

Jesus said that the words he spoke and the miracles he did were the words and deeds of the Father doing them through him. He went on to say that he is the life giving vine and we are the branches. He was teaching abiding. Paul, the author of the Gospel, as God gave Paul the Gospel, stated that it was no longer he living but Christ living through him. He lived the abiding life.

The word states to offer yourselves up daily as a living sacrifice. It states that we as born again believers have the mind of Christ in us. Yet, it also states that we need to renew our minds daily in the things of the spirit(prayer,praise,worship,reading the word)

Why would we need to nurture our relationship if this second act was a cure all, our supercharger of Christian spirituality? If this supercharged our spirit with his spirit? It is clear that God created us to fellowship with him. Fellowship is spending time and sharing back and forth.

Charismania will always say there is something new to experience. It also will place experiences over the word of God. If an experience does not match up with the New Covenant scriptures, it is not a God thing, rather it is an experience thing and not to be made a doctrine.

People will tell you that something is going on someplace else and can not happen where you are, based on some issues with culture that takes away from your faith. A closer look often shows sadly the people lying about something. It happens all the time.

Christianity is simple. As a matter of fact it states that the first shall be last and the last shall be first. That is something to think about isn't it? It is God's desire to have a love relationship with everyone. In order to do that, it must be simple. Otherwise it is not for everyone.

God does not leave people hanging. He doesn't expect us to take one scripture here and there and make a whole life moving issue.
It is simple. The Word says we are saved by Faith. It says to get baptized in water as an outward sign of your faith, signifying you are buried and resurrected with Christ. Then we are called to abide in Christ. Simply allow him to live through us. THAT is IT.

GloryToHim1973 67F

8/25/2011 1:17 pm

What a Wonderful Teaching!!!! Ill read this over and over--it has such great revelation--thank you for shringit with us!! Blessings!! Oh as far as Tithing--I simply beleive God loves a cheerful giver and if we give from the heart--he is pleased!! When i was ministering in Albania they gave pigs to the Lord because that is all they had--but they gave it with a cheerful heart!! hmm--ill have to find a pig to bring to church next time to go lol


8/25/2011 8:10 pm

Good post Dennis.

"Love is Patient..."

Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
8/26/2011 4:50 pm

Hey everybody. Thanks for stopping by. I hope you have A GOOD WEEKEND