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Tropical_Man 67M
6573 posts
12/19/2010 9:06 pm
"Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law?"


by Jason Meyer

The key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).

In place of the Old Testament law, we are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40). Now, this does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. Many of the commands in the Old Testament law fall into the categories of “loving God” and “loving your neighbor.” The Old Testament law can be a good guidepost for knowing how to love God and knowing what goes into loving your neighbor. At the same time, to say that the Old Testament law applies to Christians today is incorrect. The Old Testament law is a unit (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. If Christ fulfilled some it, such as the sacrificial system, He fulfilled all of it.

“This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshipping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. The purpose of the Old Testament law is to convict people of our inability to keep the law and point us to our need for Jesus Christ as Savior (Romans 7-9; Galatians 3:24). The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.


Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
12/20/2010 2:34 pm

I think you have great issues with reading. We are not under a law and justified by law keeping. Try rereading.

Where does he say sin is ok? He doesnt. I can show you scripture after scripture supporting what he stated.


Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
12/20/2010 2:35 pm

Ephesians 2:15

15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace


Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
12/20/2010 2:37 pm

So....if you are loving God with all your heart ,mind and soul....where does this constitute sinning? If you love your neighbors as yourself. Where is this sinning?

Where do you go wrong by that? You dont.


Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
12/20/2010 2:39 pm

Romans 10: 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, `WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN ?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or `WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS ?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;


Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
12/20/2010 2:41 pm

23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.


littleplanet 51M

12/21/2010 2:05 am

Honestly, putting a question like that only attracts answers that will not necessarily address the question. The issue was brought up many times but the truth is mostly all those passages that are talked about are taken out of context.

That's the issue. Which laws apply now, and I think all the good laws apply as one verse indicates and that is it's like GUIDANCE. Pagans too have a conscience and know what's wrong as well. The law only verifies our sin, but many people are too closed minded to understand. The pearls are for those who have wisdom.


Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
12/22/2010 3:21 am

Lets see, once again. if you love God with all of your heart, what are going to do that is bad? In Christianity, you are justified before God because of what Jesus did.

Hydrate me. What Paul has to say is every bit as important as what Jesus had to say. Christianity began after Christs death. Atonement has to take place. Covenants changed. One died, one came alive.


Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
12/22/2010 3:23 am

Our obedience to the Lord is not based on servitude, but on a real relationship with Christ. We must know, personally, how much God loves us before we can love Him back. If it's only a mental acknowledgement that God is good and that He l...oves everyone, it's not enough to win your love for Him. You've got to allow Him to take you through trials and meditate on how you've only made it this far because of His love and mercy.

For me, I was a Pharisee until I read The Shack by Paul Young. Now The Shack isn't perfect, but in reading about Papa and the lengths He will go through to show you how much He loves you, I've been able to come much closer to the Lord. When my daughter died this past summer, I felt His love and peace in a meaningful, real way. He's not interested in what I can do for Him - He just wants me to know Him. I felt His arms wrapped around me when I cried for my daughter. He soaked up all of my grief; and He understood, because He has been where I am. He surrounded me with loving friends and family; and today on what would have been her 28th birthday, so many of them are writing on her FB page and messaging me because they share His love for me. Once you've experienced God's kind of love, obedience is not an issue. You want to be close, you want to please Him, you want Him to be proud of you as a father is of his child. God's nature is pure love, and His love supercedes the Law.

by
Larry McGarr


Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
12/22/2010 3:25 am

too many Christians love the book but don't know the Author. They hope they can use the Book when they stand before the Lord and show Him all the commandments they kept...except for the little ones they hope He ...overlooks, because after all, they managed to keep the majority of the Law. When that doesn't work, they'll blame the pastor for not teaching them the parts of the Bible that God felt was more important. When that doesn't work, they'll blame God for giving us the scriptures to begin with. This whole time they have missed out on a personal, relevant relationship between themselves and the Father.

It's not about what other people do, it's about what we do with the Lord. It's about restoring relationships, not dividing the Church. We can complain about one another, we can compare our church to another church, we can point to our leaders as mentors in our faith; but it must come back to whether we spent time being with God or telling Him how we would have done His job. When scripture talks about believers falling away from the Church, many of them are being driven away by legalistic and uncaring Christians. There are more people being saved here on the streets of Durham than in all of the churches in the area combined. The religious people sit in churches behind stained glass windows and applaud themselves for not being part of the world. Jesus was out in the world changing lives, not telling sinners they better shape up or Hell's awaiting.

Larry McGarr


Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
12/22/2010 3:46 am

Firecracker, Christianity is not obeying laws, it is not if we obey and God will do this. if all it were was being based on your ability to perform and be good then why would Jesus have ever need come?

Let me ask you this, were the miracles Jesus did his? Were the wonderful words of wisdom from Jesus? Well if you read in the Gospel of John, he says he did not do the miracles. he also said the words he spoke were not his but the fathers.

Christianity is believing on Christ by faith and receiving him as Savior. Then what is it? It is abiding. This means Jesus living through you. Not you doing what you think is the best.

Old covenant was law keeping, but no one was ever going to be able to do that. No one. They can not today. Yet Jesus can live through you.

There is no voodoo Christianity. We are under blessing. No curse. That ended when Jesus gave atonement for the born again believer. No where in the scriptures after Jesus gave atonement will you find a born again believer with a demon or one being prayed over for a generational curse to be broken. Nowhere. There is aa reason, the Old Covenant died on that cross.

The world is still judged by the law, because until you receive Christ, you are judged by it. It is that simple.

My word to the frreaky doctrine that what PAUL has to say does not matter, you have no place in the discussion. Why, because you dismiss basically the father of the body of Christ that wrote most of the new testament. The Bible is not one big section of the same thing. It has parts to show history, it has parts proclaiming what is to come, and after the cross things changed.

Then the world, instead of just the Jews could have a relationship with God. Even more so. God indwelling in born again believers in form of the Holy Spirit. Moses did not have that or Job or anyone before atonement of Christ.

Paul stated:Galatians 3:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Well?

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain--if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?


Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
12/22/2010 3:49 am

The sad/ironic funny part is some people will point to what Jesus said, and ignore what Paul said. There is no contradiction.However Jesus did not write his words in the Gospels. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did. They were their accounts of what happened and what they heard.

Paul wrote in the same premise, the leading of the Holy Spirit.


Tropical_Man 67M
6389 posts
12/22/2010 3:50 am

Is your justification and approval based on what Jesus did or what you can do when you become a believer


justapassinthru 66F

12/22/2010 5:31 am

DENNIS.

Okay let's hear from Paul then:

Rom:3:31: Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom:6:2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom:6:15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

AND WHAT IS SIN?

1Jn:3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Can it be any SIMPLER?

Dennis. Are we now free to transgress the law?

Yes or No.

UNFORTUNATELY, you have the bad habit of pulling out certain verses of the scriptures and try to make it seem as if Paul is saying that we dont have to keep the Law anymore, and that just is false.

OF COURSE we are saved by grace, and OF COURSE we are to walk by Faith. But true Faith ESTABLISHES THE LAW, it doesnt negate it.

So on the one hand, we have YOU teaching that Paul says we dont have to keep the Law and we have GORDY teaching that Paul says we dont have to keep the Law, AND that we shouldnt even read what Paul has to say because of that.

You are BOTH way off the mark.

And yes the Bible says the Law is a tutor to bring us to Christ, it is what shows us what SIN IS so we realize we need a Saviour, but THEN WHAT? Do we go back wallowing in SIN because we are forgiven?

OF COURSE NOT. The death of Christ on the Cross isnt a license for SIN. Jesus isnt the MINISTER OF SIN. He points us right back to THE LAW because He died to set us FREE from the bondage of SIN.

This is so simple, a CHILD can understand it.


justapassinthru 66F

12/23/2010 4:03 am

    Quoting  :

Sensory,

Please dont start with your usual thing about there being six hundred and however many laws, I have been through all that time and time again. You WELL KNOW that the Ceremonial Laws were entirely DIFFERENT than the 10 Commandment Moral Law, I have told you that REPEATEDLY.

And dont intend on repeating myself AGAIN about it all.

If you didnt get it the other dozen or so times I tried explaining it all to you, you still wont get it NOW.

It is just WRONG for you to do this over and over, AS IF I never explained this all to you. The Moral Law was and IS STILL INSIDE OF THE ARK -indicating its permanence, the Ceremonial Law was IN THE SIDE OF THE ARK, indicating its temporary nature.

Rv:11:19: And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The reason its called THE ARK OF THE TESTAMENT is because it contains the 10 Commandment LAW, the the MERCY SEAT is on top of it. You dont even know WHY YOU NEED MERCY if there isnt any LAW.

If you try to do away with the Law you do away with the entire Sacrifice of Christ.

Amen, Period.

I wont continue this conversation again with you now. I dont like games.