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CANADIAN HEALTH CARE EARNS DISMAL FINISH IN INTERNATIONAL RANKING For the second time in less than two weeks, the Canadian public health care system has flunked an international comparison test, says the Health Consumer Powerhouse (HCP), a research organization. Canada's health care system ranks 23rd among 32 nations surveyed for quality, access and innovation. The second annual Euro-Canada Health Consumer Index measures patients' rights and information, waiting times for treatment, outcomes, the range and reach of services provided and access to pharmaceuticals. Out of the 1,000 points available, the Index ranked countries in the following manner: The Netherlands was in the top spot with 824 points. Austria was second with 813 points. Luxembourg and Denmark took third and fourth place with 795 and 794 points, respectively. Germany came in fifth with 769 points. Canada placed 23rd with a score of just 549 points. According to researchers, wait times to see a doctor and receive treatment dragged the Canadian ranking toward the bottom: Patients were waiting between 3-15 months for treatment, when they could have received the same quality of care in Germany, France or the Netherlands in two weeks. While Canada is one of the highest per capita spenders on health care, patients don't get much for their money. On the so-called "bang for the buck scale," that measured health care results for the number of dollars spent, Canada ranks dead. Moreover, the Canadian system is in some respects held hostage by vested interests, such as public sector unions, say researchers. Some of these groups like to attach themselves to one method of service delivery, and they become religious about it. They become kind of fundamentalists about public health care delivery, as opposed to saying how can we do it like Europe, and have a variety of service providers. Source: Mike McCourt, "Canadian health care earns dismal finish in international ranking," Metro News, May 26, 2009; based upon: Arne Björnberg and Daniel Eriksson, " Euro-Canada Health Consumer Index 2009," Health Consumer Powerhouse and The Frontier Centre for Public Policy, 2009. How is that socialism working for ya Kim? |
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This is a subject I didn't know about. I can't imagine waiting 3-15 months to be treated for an ailment!! How many people die waiting to see a dr there or are life threatening situations taken care of at the ER rooms? I wonder if waiting so long leads to increased costs? An untreated ear infection can lead to permanent loss of hearing but perfectly treatable with no consequences if given antibiotics.
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I just returned to the US after living in Canada since I was a kid. As the health care system here in the States is far from perfect, so is any health care. But seeing I lived there for many years, I would have some first hand experience. I do see reports that are being sensationalized in the news. Some things are really good about the Canadian medicare system. Such as the care is the same for a poor man as it is for a rich man. I've never seen a family go into debt over an illness. While there can be some back-ups for some things, it is being made to sound as though everything is backed up which just isn't true. Based on whether a doctor has openings for new patients, you do have a choice of the doctor you prefer. I had numerous tests from doctors, specialists, hospital tests and two stints put in my heart to the tune of five thousand dollars for the stints alone, saying nothing of the costs of numerous doctors visits, specialist heart doctors, numerous and expensive hospital tests and the cost of hospital stays and doctors doing the surgery. All of this and not a penny in hospital bills. So, compare that to some here that have a child come down with a terrible illness and don't have lots of money or a fantastic private health plan. I see those who have horrible illness in Canada sent to special hospitals for children with cancer, etc. I see private corporations, such as MacDonald's, set up places for the families to stay while attending these children in hospitals away from their homes. I see a people that care so much for sick children and others that are sick that they are always doing money raising for those afflicted and for the families of those afflicted. And if you want to see money come out of a Canadian's pocket fast just tell him your raising money for some one who is sick or has just been burned out of their homes, etc. They will be handing you the money before you even get through explaining what and who it's for. When it comes to that, Canadians are probably among the most generous people I have ever met. Many of them grew up poor and now that they have been successful financially in life, they never seem to forget where they came from and are quick to help those who are disadvantaged. I see the mentally challenged accepted and treated with much kindness by the general population. I belonged to a pool league for instance, that one guy brought a half a dozen mentally challenged people to. Well, all of the regular pool shooters didn't stick them in a corner somewhere, but rather integrated them into our pool league and would very patiently teach them. And it is very much the same with the health care system. I see the poor man's son getting the same treatments the rich man's son gets for the same illness. And I see all of this care not costing the people victimized by illness a lifetime of horrendous debt. Is the system one that can be implemented in the US ? Probably not. But Canada, while it was still a very poor country, brought this system in so the poor in that country would be cared for and not be cast aside for monetary reasons. They do have some problems, as any country does concerning heath care, but it really is all in all a pretty good system. I mean there is waiting time when you go to the emergency room on a Friday night just like there is here in the US. Some things are backed up and there are some things that have a waiting time, but in general, I think they do a pretty good job. And many of the doctors and nursing staff do one heck of a job. I've seen doctors there dig and dig till they would get to the bottom of what is wrong. I've seen my self on many occasions just walk in off the street and say I'd like to see the doctor and usually I can. At the latest they might tell me to come back in the morning. So some stuff being said is being blown out of proportion. Just ask any Canadian if they would want their medicare system wiped out and your answer to whether it's a good system or not would be answered. And take it from someone who has lived there. It isn't perfect, but in many ways it is fantastic. And although it's not perfect, the people as a people, have hearts of gold. A great example of this is when our planes were all grounded after 911. The planes that had to land in Newfoundland for example. The people from those communities made room in their homes for those who were on those planes and treated those US citizens like they were long lost relatives and they were there for a family reunion. Like I said, it ain't perfect there . But it is one heck of a nice place to live in many ways. And as in any place, the government programs aren't what make or break a nation. It's the character of the people. And those in the health care profession are just like all of the other Canadians there. They are what makes the health care system there a pretty good thing. If you ever find the time you should rent yourself a camper and head up there for a vacation. It's still the sort of place, where if you have a flat tire or trouble, people will stop and help you, and you don't have to wonder if they are going to rob you. So, I guess I'm saying that Canada, including their health system is one good place. 2Co:4:3 KJV: But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
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LOL achangel ya dolt... they pay 50% taxes up there. Doctors make less. The research is done here. You have what 18 million people in Canada? We have that almost in NY City.
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Canada's Healthcare System is Bad Medicine by Glenn Woiceshyn (March 31, 2006) The failure of Canada's experiment with socialist medicine is readily apparent: long waiting lists and wait times for specialized services, conveyor-belt treatment for routine services, chronic shortages of family doctors and hospital beds, gross inefficiencies, slow innovation, stifling and wasteful bureaucracies, warring "special-interest" groups, and the exodus of good doctors to greener, freer pastures. It's still illegal in Canada for private healthcare providers to compete with the government monopoly. Only North Korea and Cuba–two impoverished, brutal, communist dictatorships–still retain such restrictions. And there have been increasing accounts of Canadians suffering severe pain and even dying while waiting months or years for treatments that are readily available in countries that allow private healthcare. So when the Canadian election was called several months ago, one might have thought that at least one political party was willing to promise, if elected, to de-monopolize healthcare to some extent at least. However, none of the five significant parties–not even Stephen Harper's "right-wing" Conservative Party–would dare make such a promise. Why not? Because despite how impractical the Canadian healthcare system is, many Canadians regard it as moral. It's a classic case of accepting a moral code that clashes with reality and harms people. The moral code underlying Canada's healthcare system can be inferred from how it is practiced. Everyone has free and equal access to healthcare providers (which naturally generates a lot of demand). Providers bill the government for services rendered. Government pays providers with the money it extorts via highly progressive taxation. Government has the power to restrict healthcare spending (which logically leads to long waiting lists and wait times). The basic moral principle is egalitarianism–the belief that everyone must be given equal rewards regardless of performance or behavior. Everyone gets equal access to healthcare regardless of what they pay in taxes. And what one pays is independent of how much one uses the system. Egalitarianism is a species of altruism–the moral code which advocates self-sacrifice to others. (The opposite code is rational self-interest or rational egoism whereby each individual pursues their own well being and happiness–neither sacrificing oneself to others nor others to oneself–and social interaction is voluntary, not coerced.) For healthcare consumers, the egalitarian message is obvious. Don't bother working hard to achieve success for you will only be condemned as "the haves," taxed of your "excess," prevented from securing better healthcare, and told to go to the back of the line. Don't bother being responsible regarding your health because it won't affect what you pay in taxes or what services you get "for free." Imagine the impact on a hard-working teenager if his parents seized his earnings from a part-time job and distributed it–in the name of equality–among his ambitionless siblings. As for health-care providers, the egalitarian message is also obvious. Study hard for years; work long and grueling hours; develop life-saving skills, but government will dictate your employer and compensation. The public demands high-quality services regardless of the extent to which your freedom and interests are being sacrificed to the "public good"–to hell with individual rights. Form this one can extract the egalitarian notion of justice: Punish those who are creative, productive and responsible in order to reward those who (for whatever reason) are not. But if justice is the policy of granting to each person what he or she deserves, then egalitarianism is unjust. The champions of egalitarianism seem oblivious to what makes wealth and medical technology possible. They want us to believe that they can punish and enslave achievers and still have piles of money to seize and distribute–that high-quality services and technological advances are possible in a society where those who are ambitious and productive are sacrificed in the name of helping those who are not. Given this moral code of egalitarianism, it's not surprising that Canada's healthcare system is so impractical. Now consider today's wonderful trend of being offered higher quality computer products and services at ever lower prices, and what would happen if governments seized control and established a government-controlled monopoly offering free computing to all. What would happen to the computer innovators, product/service quality, real costs and government debt? Pretty much what has happened with the Canadian healthcare system. Why is it immoral to personally benefit from one's own success? Surely, someone's computer innovation or breakthrough medical discovery is not stolen from those who didn't innovate. The aspirations and abilities of people vary immensely, and they expect to be, and should be, rewarded accordingly for their efforts and achievements. An opposite policy–an egalitarian policy–destroys the motivation to innovate and succeed. Or consider socialist medicine from a somewhat different angle. When government has the power to extort money from people to pay for government services such as healthcare, the providers become directly responsible to bureaucrats, politicians and "special-interest" groups–not to patients. When the patient retains the power to financially reward providers for good service, providers will compete for the money by offering better quality at lower prices, which is what we get in the relatively unregulated computer industry. There is no rational argument in favor of socialist medicine. It persists in Canada primarily because the majority of Canadians have accepted an irrational and impractical moral code–egalitarianism–which remains virtually unchallenged. Only when this moral code is widely challenged and debunked, will Canadians experience a significant improvement in healthcare. Americans should be wary when politicians such as Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy try to glorify the Canadian healthcare system. Glenn Woiceshyn is a freelance writer, residing in Calgary. Visit his education resources website at Powerful Minds.
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Thing is my friend, because I gave you another viewpoint that didn't agree with yours, you refer to me as a dolt. I am the farthest thing from a dolt because I don't believe everything that someone writes. Pretty rude of you to make such a statement to me, I thought up til now, that you had a little more class than that. I gave you personal first hand information. You, know you just can't beat that. Although taxes are high, I don't know where you get the fact that Canadians pay 50 percent taxes. If I made $500.00 a week gross, I would take home a bit over $400.00. That sound like 50% to you ? In the privince I was living in the sales tax was high. 14%. But the math still doesnt show 50%. Although I said that I don't think the US should bring universal health care in, it doesn't mean that it isn't a thing that wasn't brought in to Canada outside of the will of the people. I just told you that I have lived there for years and I think I have some insight that you may not have. You have only what you read and one could find an article stating just the opposite of what you posted here. I told you also from personal knowledge, that most Canadians if asked if they would want to see the health care system in Canada as it is now vanish, the answer would be no. Perhaps the politicians up there know that the people want it. You make it seem that the politicians are the ones that want it more than the people. This has been put on the table by the politicians so many times that they know it a sure way to not get elected. So if telling you what most Canadians want in their health care, makes me a dolt in your eyes, then as I suggested to folks, maybe you could take a vacation up there sometime and talk to the people yourself and you will then have information from the people themselves and not just an article or articles that are slanted the way you want to hear. I mean, really, do you think I just made all of this up or something? I just told you of my personal experiences with the health care system up there and you just discounted it. I just wanted you to hear another point of view, but it seems you know more than someone who has lived there. 2Co:4:3 KJV: But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
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This is a subject I didn't know about. I can't imagine waiting 3-15 months to be treated for an ailment!! How many people die waiting to see a dr there or are life threatening situations taken care of at the ER rooms? I wonder if waiting so long leads to increased costs? An untreated ear infection can lead to permanent loss of hearing but perfectly treatable with no consequences if given antibiotics. There is a lot of false things being said by the media. I sit here and listen to it sometimes and wonder where in the world do they get thes outlandish ideas they are putting in peoples heads. Like waiting for a doctor so long that a simple infection could lead to death ! That is absolutely rediculous and simply untrue! I have no agenda whatsoever by telling you this. I am telling you that this stuff is fabricated. If you think universal healthcare is not something the US should implement, that is your constitutional right to speak your mind. But, folks should get their facts right before fear mongering by telling things about another country that just isn't so. And these things that you are hearing are not true. And the things that are being said are being blown so far out of the realm of truth that it is incredible, at least to one who has lived there and knows. I know that people up in Canada get prompt medical attention and I've never known of anyone who has died because of having to wait for a doctor. Why to listen to these know it alls, you would think people are dropping like flies up there due to inadequate health care. Waiting 3-15 months for treatments ? Why from what some would have you believe, no-one is getting their health taken care of. What a bunch of baloney ! Don't believe everything you hear. 2Co:4:3 KJV: But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
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There is a battle over health care raging in the US. There is a lot of false things being said by the media. I sit here and listen to it sometimes and wonder where in the world do they get thes outlandish ideas they are putting in peoples heads. Like waiting for a doctor so long that a simple infection could lead to death ! That is absolutely rediculous and simply untrue! I have no agenda whatsoever by telling you this. I am telling you that this stuff is fabricated. If you think universal healthcare is not something the US should implement, that is your constitutional right to speak your mind. But, folks should get their facts right before fear mongering by telling things about another country that just isn't so. And these things that you are hearing are not true. And the things that are being said are being blown so far out of the realm of truth that it is incredible, at least to one who has lived there and knows. I know that people up in Canada get prompt medical attention and I've never known of anyone who has died because of having to wait for a doctor. Why to listen to these know it alls, you would think people are dropping like flies up there due to inadequate health care. Waiting 3-15 months for treatments ? Why from what some would have you believe, no-one is getting their health taken care of. What a bunch of baloney ! Don't believe everything you hear. So this is a statement that is not only true but I am personally living it here in the US. Of course, it is my fault I didn't seek treatment earlier. I incorrectly assumed it was not a big deal and it turned out that it was! As I said before, I don't know hooey about Canadian health care but I do sit on a board of a non-profit medical ministry here in the US. We provide non-emergency care to families who do not qualify for other aid and do not have insurance... the people who slip through the cracks, so to speak. One of the reasons this medical ministry was founded was after a small child suffered permanent hearing loss as the result of an untreated ear infection. We found that there was a definite need in this community for such non-emergency care before something becomes an emergency for those in need. While I do not know anything about the 3-15 months or if anyone has been reported as dying because of a wait for treatment in Canadian which is why I asked the questions I did, I wish you wouldn't put words into my mouth as to what I believe or don't or how I feel about the healthcare legislation situation in the US or Canadian as I have never voiced my personal opinions on the subject one way or another.
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WHOA!!!!!!! Overcaffeinated Please don't think I was putting words in your mouth. I DID notice that you said: "This is a subject I didn't know about" The statements I made including the one about fear mongering was not directed at you. It's just during my response to you. I made some general statements. 4gvnrn just said to me," hey Mike, I think Overcaffeinated was offended and might think you were attacking her. I said, REALLY? wow! I was really surprised. But see that it could have been taken that way. I'm sorry if you felt attacked in any way by what I said. I certainly didn't want it to appear that what I said was in any way personally against you. It was against the blown out of purportion news reports. Again I apologise for my lack of making the distinction between what you wrote and and what the media and others are saying. I should have made that clearer than I did. Sorry that I gave you the wrong impression. 2Co:4:3 KJV: But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
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WHOA!!!!!!! Overcaffeinated Please don't think I was putting words in your mouth. I DID notice that you said: "This is a subject I didn't know about" The statements I made including the one about fear mongering was not directed at you. It's just during my response to you. I made some general statements. 4gvnrn just said to me," hey Mike, I think Overcaffeinated was offended and might think you were attacking her. I said, REALLY? wow! I was really surprised. But see that it could have been taken that way. I'm sorry if you felt attacked in any way by what I said. I certainly didn't want it to appear that what I said was in any way personally against you. It was against the blown out of purportion news reports. Again I apologise for my lack of making the distinction between what you wrote and and what the media and others are saying. I should have made that clearer than I did. Sorry that I gave you the wrong impression.
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facts show how bad socialized medicine is...everywhere want about 200 stories right off of the top?
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