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Tropical_Man 68M
6573 posts
9/26/2008 7:44 am
Is the Sabbath Your Jesus or is Jesus the sabbath?


Is Jesus your end all? Is the the answer for everything? The Word says he is. Paul said to STRIVE to enter int the Peace that is found in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Jesus replaces all things even remotely tied to an old imperfect yukkie covenant that God called imperfect.

People misconceive walking in the spirit as some silly ability to live as you want. Spirit led.

People that struggle in life with many things always look to structure. That is why they feel safer following structures so they can feel like they are living up to something.

Paul warned against this. he said that would place a person back under the law. A law Peter said was never given to gentiles to begin with.

Spirit Led is Love led. Law Led is cold and un intimate.


Tropical_Man 68M
6389 posts
9/26/2008 12:16 pm

Claudia. Your church made a witch their prophet and you defend that to the death. the sabbath is done away with.


Tropical_Man 68M
6389 posts
9/26/2008 12:22 pm

Question
I just recently read one of your answers and you mentioned that there are falsehoods in the SDA church. I'm a bit concerned and confused by what you mean, because I am an SDA. And as I know there are no falsehoods because these teachings are completely biblical. And I was wondering if you could tell me what these suspected falsehoods might be.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Answer
Dear Raisha:

There are many false teachings in the SDA Church. Some of which are Sabbath keeping, the state of the dead, Ellen White as a true prophet, and Investigative Judgment. I can't deal with all these issues in detail at one time. Therefore, I will just look at Investigative Judgment since it is a uniquely SDA doctrine. I know of no other Church that accepts this doctrine as biblical.

The Investigative Judgment is a doctrine that is unique to Seventh-day Adventists (SDA). This should serve as a clue that this is a false doctrine. Since the full gospel was handed on to the faithful in the first century (see Jude 3), and no Christian ever heard of this doctrine until 1844 it must be a false doctrine as per St. Paul.

“…Some who wish to alter the gospel of Christ must have confused you. For even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel not in accord with the one we delivered to you, let a curse be upon him! I repeat what I have just said: if anyone preaches a gospel to you other than the one you received, let a curse be upon him!” (Galatians 1-9).

In brief, Investigative Judgment is the belief that on October 22, 1844, Jesus left the Holy Place in the Heavenly Temple and for the first time entered the Most Holy Place coming into the presence of God the Father there Jesus began the final phase of his Atonement which he had begun on the Cross. Now he began investigating the lives of each individual beginning with the dead. The object of Investigative Judgment is for Jesus to determine who belongs to him and who does not, who is saved and who is lost. The keeping of the Ten Commandments, particularly the Sabbath command, is emphasized by the SDA for obvious reasons. After the Investigative Judgment is complete, Jesus will return to the earth.

A closely associated doctrine is the Shut Door. When Jesus entered the Most Holy Place he shut the door of mercy. According to Ellen G. White (EGW), prophetess of the SDA, this occurred on October 22, 1844. Since the door of mercy was shut no one could be saved after that date. One was either a saved SDA or lost. EGW predicted that Jesus would return shortly after October 22,1844. When this failed to happen and people appeared to be being saved, the SDA had a problem. How could EGW's Shut Door theory be true if people were still being saved? Further when EGW stated in 1850 that Jesus would return in a few months (see Early Writings, pp. 58, 67) this only increased the problem. It was believed that the Investigative Judgment would end on October 22, 1851. When this date passed without incident, James White, EGW's husband, took matters into his own hands. He published his wife's visions, but with an important omission. He deleted all references to the Shut Door from her writings. When some fellow SDAs confronted him on the omissions, he promised to publish EGW's complete visions. This was a promise that he never kept.

James did not believe in the Investigative Judgment, at least not as taught by his wife.

“Some have contended that the day of Judgment was prior to the second advent. This view is certainly without foundation in the word of God” (James White in “Advent Review”, September 1850).

However, he tried to cover-up his true feelings and so defend his wife's unbiblical visions. Basically he denied the truth in order to protect the SDA movement.

The Biblical evidence against the Shut Door/Investigative Judgment doctrine is massive.

“Like a sure and firm anchor, that hope extends beyond the veil through which Jesus, our forerunner, has entered on our behalf, being made high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek” (Hebrews 6:19-20).

Jesus had entered through the veil in the first century not the 19th as the SDA falsely claim. What does it mean that Jesus went through the veil?

“Hang the veil from the clasps. The ark of the commandments you shall bring inside, BEHIND THIS VEIL which divides the Holy Place from the Holy of Holies (the Most Holy Place). Set the propitiatory on the ark of the commandments in the Holy of Holies” (Exodus 26:33-34).

“…the Lord spoke to Moses and said to him, ‘Tell your brother Aaron that he is not to come whenever he pleases into the sanctuary, INSIDE THE VEIL, in front of the propitiatory on the ark…' “ (Leviticus 16:1-2).

“…he shall take a censer full of glowing embers from the altar before the Lord, as well as a double handful of finely ground fragrant incense, and bringing them INSIDE THE VEIL, there before the Lord he shall put incense on the fire, so that a cloud of incense may cover the propitiatory over the commandments; else he will die” (Leviticus 16:12-13).

“Then he shall slaughter the people's sin-offering goat, and bringing its blood INSIDE THE VEIL…sprinkling it on the propitiatory and before it” (Leviticus 16:15).

These passages make it clear that for Jesus to go through the veil means for him to enter the Most Holy Place and to be in the presence of the Father. Although there was a veil at the entrance into the Holy Place also, this is obviously not what is meant. Jesus only entering the Holy Place would not at all fit with St. Paul's motif of portraying Jesus as “superior to”. In this instance St. Paul is showing Jesus to be superior to the Old Covenant priesthood. He is “made a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek”. In view of the fact that the Aaronite priests could enter “through the veil” into the Most Holy Place (see Leviticus 16:1-34), St. Paul must mean that Jesus has done likewise or his priesthood would be inferior to theirs.

Jesus is said to have gone to God's right hand in the first century, not in 1844! “…when he had cleansed us from our sins, he took his seat at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven” (Hebrews 1:3).

“The main point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven…” (Hebrews 8:1).

“But Jesus offered one sacrifice for sins and took his seat forever at the right hand of God…” (Hebrews 10:12).

“…Christ is seated at God’s right hand” (Colossians 3:1).

“Who shall condemn them? Christ Jesus, who died or rather was raised up, who is at the right hand of God and who intercedes for us?” (Romans 8:34).

“He has taken his seat at the right of the throne of God” (Hebrews 12:2).

“Exalted at God’s right hand, he first received the promised Holy Spirit from the Father, then poured this Spirit out on us” (Acts 2:33).

“He whom God has exalted at his right hand …” (Acts 5:31).

“My little ones, I am writing this to keep you from sin. But if anyone should sin, we have, in the presence of the Father, Jesus Christ, an intercessor who is just” (1 John 2:1).

God invited Jesus to “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool” (Hebrews 1:13).

“I will give the victor the right to sit with me on my throne, as I myself won the victory and took my seat beside my Father on his throne” (Revelation 3:21).

Where is the throne of God located?

“After the death of Aaron's two sons, who died when they approached the Lord's presence, the Lord spoke to Moses and said to him, ‘Tell your brother Aaron that he is not to come whenever he pleases into the sanctuary, INSIDE THE VEIL, in front of the propitiatory on the ark; otherwise, when I reveal Myself in a cloud above the propitiatory, he will die” (Leviticus 16:1-2; see also Numbers 7:89; 1 Samuel 4:4; 2 Kings 19:15).

God's throne is always in the Most Holy Place (the Holy of Holies). This is where Jesus went after his Ascension. In order to be at God's right hand one must be in the Most Holy Place and not in the Holy Place, for neither God nor His throne is located there.

There is much evidence proving that Jesus, immediately after his Ascension, went into the presence of God the Father.

“So then the Lord Jesus, after he spoke to them, was taken up to heaven and took his seat at the right hand of God” (Mark 16:19).

“Stephen meanwhile, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked to the sky above and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God's right hand” (Acts 7:55).

“It is like the strength He showed in raising Christ from the dead and seating him at His right hand in heaven…” (Ephesians 1:20).

“Since you have been raised up in company with Christ, set your heart on what pertains to higher realms where Christ is seated at God's right hand” (Colossians 3:1).

“For Christ did not enter into a sanctuary made by hands, a mere copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself that he might appear before God now on our behalf” (Hebrews 9:24).

“He went to heaven and is at God's right hand, with angelic rulers and powers subjected to him” (1 Peter 3:22).

For further evidence see Hebrews 1:3, 8:1, 10:12, 12:2.

Investigative Judgment requires that judgment began in 1844 and will continue until Christ's return. Yet St. Paul is clear that judgment will occur at Christ's return. “In the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who is coming to judge the living and the dead,…(2 Timothy 4:1).

Further the object of Investigative Judgment is for Christ to determine who is his and who is the Devil's, who is saved and who is lost. The Bible, however, gives a very different understanding then the SDA has taught. Jesus did not wait until 1844 in order to determine if his Apostles would be with him in the next world.

“Then it was Peter's turn to say to him: ‘Here we have put everything aside to follow you. What can we expect from it?' Jesus said to them: ‘I give you my solemn word, in the new age when the Son of Man takes his seat upon a throne befitting his glory, you who have followed me shall likewise take your places on twelve thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel' “ (Matthew 19:27-2.

Does Jesus need to “investigate” in order to know who his sheep are? “I am the good shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me” (John 10:14). “But the foundation God has laid stands firm. It bears the inscription: ‘The Lord knows those who are his'…”(2 Timothy 2:19). St. John obviously did not believe that Jesus needed to investigate people. “For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that should betray him” (John 6:64).

St. Paul does not seem to know anything like the SDA dogma of Investigative Judgment. “I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. From now on a merited crown awaits me; on the Day of the Lord, just judge that he is, will award it to me-and not only to me, but to all who have looked for his appearing with eager longing” (2 Timothy 4-. St. John, likewise, does not know of such a judgment. In fact St. John sees no need for any judgment to begin in 1844. “He who believes in him is not judged: he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:1.

Investigative Judgment teaches that the Atonement of Christ is being completed in heaven. Again, St. Paul knows nothing of this belief.

“For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him by the death of His Son, it is all the more certain that we who have been reconciled will be saved by his life. Not only that; we go so far as to make God our boast through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation” (Romans 5:10-11).

Being reconciled to God is the same thing as saying being made right with God. Atonement is being made right with God.

One must ask,” If Investigative Judgment is so plain, and one cannot be saved without believing in it, why is it that no Christian, including the Apostles, ever heard of it before 1844?” I find it even more strange of God to have supposedly raised up the SDA church to bring this extremely important message to the world, and yet the very first thing that happened was that they got the year wrong-1843 instead of 1844. Then they got what was supposed to happen on that date wrong-at first believing that it was supposed to be the year of Christ's return. Also strange is why God would entrust this message at first to William Miller who opposed “the little flock” of SDA offshoots led by Ellen White? Imagine if John the Baptist had opposed Christ?

One final verse we need to look at-Daniel 8:14. It is on this verse that the SDA base Investigative Judgment. It reads, “He answered him, ‘For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary shall be purified.' ” The SDA say that 2,300 evenings and mornings equal 2,300 days. Then they turn days into years to arrive at the year 1844 for the beginning of Investigative Judgment. Much could be said about this, but I will be brief. Firstly, 2,300 evenings and mornings most likely means 1,150 days. When Scripture speaks of a 24 hour period it usually reads like this: 2,300 evenings AND 2,300 mornings (see Genesis 7:4; Exodus 24:18, 34:28; Deuteronomy 9:9; 1 Kings 19:8; Job 2:13; Matthew 12:40). Secondly, the text of Daniel 8:14 indicates that after 2,300 evenings and mornings the sanctuary will be at that time purified. The text does not support the idea that at that time the cleansing will begin, but rather that it will be completed when the time period mentioned has ended.

So we see how anti-biblical the SDA doctrines of Shut Door and Investigative Judgment really are. Unfortunately for the SDA, their (false) prophetess saw “in vision” that these doctrines were true. So now they are stuck with having to teach them in the light of the Biblical evidence against them (much like they have to do with keeping the Old Covenant Jewish 7th day Sabbath). It may be informative to know that Ellen White did not study the Scriptures and discover the Investigative Judgment. She, rather, had a “vision”. Then SDA apologists tried to find some Biblical support. Failing to find anything substantial, they have resorted to twisting & distorting Scripture in order to prop up their Prophetess’ unique teaching. Remember that the greatest minds Christianity has ever known, the greatest Scriptural exegetes, never knew anything of the so-called Investigative Judgment. This should be enough to alert the keen mind to the falsehood of this unique SDA doctrine.

“I am amazed that you are so soon deserting him who called you in accord with his gracious design in Christ, and are going over to another gospel. But there is no other. Some who wish to alter the gospel of Christ must have confused you. For even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel not in accord with the one we delivered to you, let a curse be upon him! I repeat what I have just said: if anyone preaches a gospel to you other than the one you received, let a curse be upon him!” (Galatians 1: 6-9).

If you want me to write to you about the other false teachings or to further explain this one just let me know.

God Bless You,
Sal


Tropical_Man 68M
6389 posts
9/26/2008 12:23 pm

The Catholic Church is a cult just like SDA Claudia