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23 minutes in Hell fiasco This is the type of thing that gets people confused and following rainbows that disappear by the time they get there. I apologize to Adams Rib, but this mularchy needs to be exposed for what it is. _________________________ Read with caution because it seems to involve an out of the body experience which I believe is unscriptural. It also involves the Lord Jesus appearing physically before the author and speaking to him. As far as I know, the last physical appearance of the Lord was to Paul who was an apostle. We are not apostles. With the closing of canon, it is unneedful for the Lord to appear physically or in visions. Familiar spirits can impersonate the Lord and can also give visions since as all who read scripture know, they can masquerade as angels of light and make hell seem more tolerable than reality. Indeed the hell that the author describes, though he uses the word 'terror' often, seems relatively tolerable. While fire exists in another part of his hell a distance away, some parts of the hell he saw had no fire. It was in total darkness. And though he could hear deafening screams nearby and smell the smell of putrid sulphur, that part of hell does not seem all that bad. God forbade Lazarus to go back to the surface of the earth to warn unbelievers of the torment of hell. Is it a little presumptuous of the author to claim to have been given the privilege (denied initially to Lazarus) to have gone to hell and come back? All that said, if you read the book with an open mind (with scripture at the back of your mind), the description of the pits of fire are very vivid and certainly nobody given a choice would desire to be in the pit. The strange horrible 13-foot creatures that attempted to pull his arms and legs apart ('because they have a hatred for man as mankind is made in the image of God') sounds terrifying. And you could also argue that his account of hell appears more 'scriptural' than the fantastic account given in Mary Baxter's book also on being in hell. The author's description of his experience in hell is short occupying only a quarter of the book. He devotes the next chapter to explain why he thinks his experience was divine, alluding to many coincidences like meeting various people in his travels who had the same experience as he had plus how some people seem to know he had a hell experience even though he had not told them before. Another chapter on how a person can be saved. And the closing chapter on an faq on hell. I find the appendix to be useful as it provides a particular aspect on hell and the verses from scripture supporting that aspect. eg evidence that there different degrees of punishment in hell ('It would be more tolerable for sodom and gommora than for thee...') and evidence of humiliation and nakedness in hell ('Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.' Rev 16). Chan Wenfu |
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Luke 16: 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
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Ruth: So, if Jesus denounced this practice as not something that would benefit anyone or be practical, then why would He decide to do this with Bill Weiss? But, even so - I thought I at least owed my brothers and sisters in the Lord the time to listen to what this man had to say and see if what he said DID line up with the scriptures. These are my questions. Bill Weiss states that the demons were tormenting him in various ways. He starts off his presentation stating that he checked his experience against scripture (as we are instructed to do in Acts 17:11. However, he never mentions the scripture that states that Demons were given the assignment to torture people in hell. I thought they ruled the earth and the air now - but their reign ends and they themselves are cast into the everlasting fire to suffer - not to be the torturers. I always thought that hell was made FOR the devil and his minions and people who are in the rebellion against God join them there - not that they got to torture people for eternity? That just doesn't seem to line up with the whole counsel of the scriptures. Any thoughts from those of you who have listened to him?
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8/5/2008 12:09 am |
Dennis, I just bought the book last week because I felt impressed to buy and read it. I had a similar hell experience in 93 and know what hes talking about.Hell is not the permanent place the lake of fire is.God allows these things so that people can warn and testify of its existence.The flames I saw were pure darkness and burned. The screams were unbearable and everything was pitch black.The demons were gathered around and fear was a million times worse then imaginable on earth. It was pitch blackness and I know without a shadow of a doubt the Lord allowed me to see and feel it. When I came out of it I asked the Lord to show me in the word and the word openned to they were cast into outter darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.Many months back I wanted to write to you because you have put God in a box and only allow God to operate within your natural senses.God is sovereign and operates way outside your scope of human reasoning. You have missed out on so much of what God is doing in the supernatural because you connect to the negativity of what other people speak because they speak out of only human revelation and are spiritually blinded.Thats a safe little world but God says the natural man receives not the things of God. Even Peter got out of the boat and walked on water...Something tells me that you would of even condemned that. Gods ways make no sense to human minds and yet why should God have to conform to man? Please remember to keep our soldiers in your prayers!!! Kristy
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8/5/2008 2:01 am |
I almost didnt want to read this post...I think we kind of avoid the subject when we should face it and learn from it. Makes me tremble a little. Makes me focus better on Christ....seriously. Great post and I agree with you ‘HE will rule them with an iron scepter.’... He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.... On HIS robe and on HIS thigh HE has this name written:... KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS."
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Well hell is a reality. People have seen it in visions that God allows for His purpose to testify and warn because hell is the absence of Him and that is the darkness. It was never meant to be a place for man/mankind it is for the fallen angels as is the lake of fire. Not long after I got saved I had an experience where I was not aware of my surroundings, as such, and there was such a fight on for my soul and was tangible blackness, but when I cried out to Jesus the LIGHT came into the blackness. Great is our Lord and Greatly to be praised. One thing I have desired of the Lord, that will I seek: That I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord, and to inquire in His temple. Psalm 27:4
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8/5/2008 4:40 am |
When we will stop relying on occult experiences? Where in the Bible were people visiting hell? Why do we think we are going to have experiences never seen or described in the Bible. As Trop Man said, Satan's angels are not in hell. They are on Earth wreaking havoc and following his orders. There are only certain angels in hell and they are in chains (Jude). So they are not going to be torturing anyone. The Bible warns repeatedly about spiritual warfare and deception. how do you know where your experiences comes from??
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Kristy, the Cults count on "experiences" over sound scriptural backing. The Word of Faith people count on it entirely. Kristy, You answered my post, so I feel it is fair to answer you. If Lazarus can not come and warn his brothers because the prophets are there and the word of God states that if they will not believe the prophets, then they will not believe the dead if they came back. Thts pretty strong. From what the scriptures say, your experience was not from God. It holds no water in the whole of things. You need to really stop and think about what you just said.
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Kristy: Thats a safe little world but God says the natural man receives not the things of God. Even Peter got out of the boat and walked on water...Something tells me that you would of even condemned that. Gods ways make no sense to human minds and yet why should God have to conform to man? Kristy, I take the time to judge by Gods word. It scares me personally that you and Jean and ken are doing an online counseling and phone counseling when you can not see your nose in front of your head. I do not wish to be mean but you have no idea what these idiots are all about. You seem to live for the sensational. Despite it being unscriptural. Think about what you just said. Why would I say to Peter not to come out onto the water when I would have been there seeing Jesus walking on the water. Thats such a ridiculous statement. Its a far cry from some deceived person who talks about hell when the scriptures say it is impossible. Whos the one being unreasonable? Where is any logic.
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you are welcome my dear friend
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Thanks for stopping by NJ. You have an astute spirit on this stuff
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8/8/2008 10:31 pm |
Dennis, It wasn't Lazarus that was in hell.It was the rich man.Well I know the vision I got and I know for what purpose. Bill Wiese was right on and saw Hell also. When God takes you in a vision thats different. Its to show you something for others.God is merciful and is warning people because he didn't create hell for people but they chose it. Call it emotionism or whatever you want I trust God and will never put him in a box.I don't appreciate you calling Ken and Jean names either. They are good people with a heart after the Lord.Pick apart anything you want spiritually and miss God because your natural reasoning will always try to talk others out of supernatural experiences.I trust God and know God does things that will go against mans understanding. Praise God I serve him and him alone. Please remember to keep our soldiers in your prayers!!! Kristy
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Kristy Scriptures and logic escape you. You have a lot of things out of line with scriptures and you seem to think experiences rule over what scriptures tell us are real. Ken and Jwean are good people but they also are way unstable. They also chase rainbows. Do you know that the verry base which first suppoerted the Florida outpouring, Charisma magazine, later had to come out and expose it. Not on a mean way but because none of the 20 people they claimed had been raised from the dead. No documentation. In fact there was nothing close to their claims whatsoever. You are dangerous. Why? Because you have just made a very dangerous statement based on nothing. You claim Bill Weiss is right on and you have absolutely nothing to back your words up. A Normal Rational human being would see this. The scary part is you want to get into counseling. Lawsuits may abound. Yeah I called Jean an idiot. Why, she is like a little kid with her hands over her eyes and ears to the truth about these phonies. Its considered negative to tell the truth? Thats sad. Its also stupid. Just as your comments have just said alot about you. Be prepared for lawsuits if you try and get into a counseling for pay. You have no bussiness doing this. You are blatantly ignorant calling God's structure and lining things up with God's word, putting him in a box. That is ridiculous beyond words. I hope someday common sense gets attached to your brain.
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