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no more kids after 1885 Oct 3, 2008 7:05 pm
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No more children to be born after 1885

In 1885 Ellen White received a testimony with "special light from heaven" to the effect that the time had come, it was now (1885) that no more children should be born. God would have very little to do with children born after that time, she claimed. This testimony was written to pastor Isaac D. Van Horn and his wife Adelia,

"This is the burden of the message, that in accordance with our faith we are required to make any and every sacrifice for the truth's sake; that at this time, when amid the trials of the last days, it was not in accordance with our faith or God's will, that our missionaries should fill their hands with cares and burdens which were not essential to the work... The message we have to bear requires much self-sacrifice, and if the workers make no change in their habits and in their practices, then worldlings in general, they are not letting their works correspond with their faith. I was shown that Brother and Sister Van Horn had departed from God's counsel in bringing into the world children. God required all there was of them in his work, and both could have done a good work for the Master, but the enemy came in, and his counsel was followed, and the cause of God was robbed of the attention it should have had... They were doing a work which was bringing upon them cares and burdens and retarding the work that God had given them to do. God will say to them, "Who required this at your hands?" ...

"When I learned that you were to soon have an increase in your family, I knew that you were not doing the will of God, but following your own inclination - to please yourselves. I have special light in regard to these things; but hardly know how to present it. The missionaries had better set the people an example in these things that correspond with our faith... I am distressed as I see the state of things among our workers. Brother and Sister Enoch professed gave themselves to the missionary work... How much better would have been their influence if they had not married, but both devoted their interests in God's cause, and after they were married, how much better for them if they had thoughtfully considered the situation, and decided that God should have all the power he had given them in the work of saving precious souls. Brother Cudney could have done a very good work for the Master, had he devoted himself to this work as the Lord's servant. When married, his work has not been more than one half what it might have been. Then he must bring a child into the world, and now he can do one-third what he might have done had he studied how he could but serve God who called him to be a soldier of the cross of Christ. If our workers were walking close to God, they see the situation,and would feel that it was no matter of rejoicing to bring a child into the world. A blessing is pronounced upon the eunuchs who keep the Sabbath (Isa. 65:3-5). . . .The time is and has been for years, that the bringing of children into the world is more an occasion of grief than joy. . . .Satan controls these children, and the Lord has but little to do with them. . . .The time has come when, in one sense, they that have wives be as though they have none. God wants us to be consistent people, our works corresponding to our faith ... I am thoroughly disgusted with the course of our preachers and workers." (Testimony DF 97 B, Feb. 15, 1885, Manuscript 34, 1885. Emphasis supplied.)

One would have to ask: What kind of God does EGW present in this testimony? At least not the God of the Bible, who said, "Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Matt 19:14.

This testimony had been given different archive numbers in the Estate, so that people, when asking, could be refused by a "sorry, there is no letter or manuscript with such and such number here". The letter was brought to light by Sherman A. Nagel in 1934, in his book God's Love, the Remnant Church. Obviously, Nagel ran into problems because he had published this embarassing testimony from "the Spirit of Prophecy".

"It was shown me", "I have special light on this", Ellen White claimed -- and she was "shown" in 1885, 114 years ago, that the time had come for married workers and preachers not to produce more children. Was it "the young man" who showed her this?

Can you imagine why this testimony would get different archive numbers in the vaults?

One does not know whether to weep or smile over the fruits this testimony produced. During the camp-meeting in Portland, Oregon the same year (1885), workers and preachers were summoned to a special adult's meeting where no children were allowed. Str. White would make it plain thatno more children were to be born. The workers, missionaries and preachers were to set an example before the rest of the congregations. But when sabbath came, two or three preachers entered the platform, with tears on their cheeks, confessing before the congregation that they had sinned against God and slept with their wives. They pleaded the people to pray for them, so they could be true to the testimony. But next sabbath they entered the platform again and confessed before their respective congregations that they had sinned again and slept with their wives!
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Ellen White, the Myth and the Truth Oct 3, 2008 6:44 pm
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This is long but good information about the truth behind the Cult
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The Avondale Furrow Tale Oct 3, 2008 6:40 pm
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The Avondale Furrow Tale
By D. Anderson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Avondale Furrow incident is occasionally cited by Adventists as evidence of how God used Sister White to guide the SDA Church. As the story goes, Mrs. White had a dream that showed the brethren which piece of property to purchase as the future site of the Avondale College in Australia.

One Adventist book describes the event in the most glowing terms:

"From several sources we put the story together. It seems that part of the committee went ahead, leaving Sister White to make the journey with Elder and Mrs. G. B. Starr. On the train she told the Starrs of her dream in which she and they were standing on the piece of property, looking it over, and came upon a neat-cut furrow about one quarter of a yard deep and two yards in length. She saw two of the brethren, who had grown up with the Iowa type of rich, deep soil, standing by the furrow and saying, 'This is not good land; the soil is not favorable.' As they spoke these words Sister White was told by One who had often given her counsel, 'False witness has been borne of this land,' and He explained the value of the different strata in the soil and their use.
"In due time she and her party arrived at Cooranbong, and they looked over the estate without reaching a decision that day. The next morning, May 25, 1894 ... the group scattered out to examine further the various parts of the property. The Starrs and Sister White walked over the place and came upon a spot where a neat-cut furrow had been plowed one quarter of a yard deep and two yards in length. As they stood there looking at the turned-up soil, two brethren came upon them from different directions. On seeing Sister White they remarked, 'This is not good land; the soil is not favorable.'

"Sister White then told them of her dream and of the fulfillment. With this evidence and evidence of the presence and the power of God as seen in the healing of Brother McCullogh, they decided to take the place, and made a down payment."1

Is this true? Did Mrs. White have a divine dream that convinced the brethren to purchase the property? Or could it be possible that this whole story was fabricated to prop up the prophethood of Ellen White?

A Detailed Chronology of Events
1893 - The Search Begins

The search for a suitable property for the new Australian Adventist school begins in earnest in June, 1893, with the arrival of W.C. White from New Zealand. Elder A.G. Daniells, who is already in Australia, teams up with W.C. White in the search. General Conference president O.A. Olsen arrives on December 20 and visits a number of the proposed building sites. He leaves on February 19 without any decision having been reached.2

March, 1894 - W.C. White Finds the Property

W.C. White investigates the "Brettville Estate" property. This is the property that the Church eventually ends up purchasing for the Avondale school. Although concerned with the quality of the soil, W.C. White concludes that if the price were right, he would purchase it.3

March 26, 1894 to May 22, 1894 - Mrs. White Visits Property

Mrs. White moved to the city of Sydney, Australia on March 26, 1894. Over the course of the next eight weeks Mrs. White visited the Brettville Estate several times. W.C. White later reported that prior to May 23rd his mother "had visited the place two or three times, and had spoken in its favor to Elder and Sister Starr".4 A.G. Daniells also noted that Mrs. White had visited the site prior to May 23: "Several times Sister White, with her son, and her secretary, and a few of our brethren had visited the place, and she was favorable to its purchase."5

Stop now and consider the facts as they stand by May 22, 1894:

W.C. White had located a suitable property and decided to buy if the price was right.
Mrs. White had visited the property several times and was favorable to buying it.
Mrs. White had already spoken in favor of the property to Elder Starr. This is important, because as we shall see, Elder Starr was to play an interesting role in this unfolding drama.
Based on these three facts, there is no doubt that the Whites had already decided in favor of this property by May 22, 1894. As further evidence, on May 9, Mrs. White wrote, "the decision we have so long contemplated has been made in regard to the land we hope to purchase for the school."6 It is evident the Whites had fully decided upon the property before there was any mention of a dream.

May 23, 1894 - Search Group Decides to Buy Brettville Estate

Mrs. White, W.C. White, A.G. Daniells, Elder Starr, and a number of others arrive at the property to examine it. Supposedly, this was when the furrow was first sighted, but there is no mention of it in Mrs. White's diary entry for the day. She tells of seeing trees and a river, and mentions a host of other trivial facts, but there is no mention of a furrow. If she had indeed seen a furrow that matched the scenes recently revealed to her in a divine dream, one would have thought it would deserve at least a mention in her diary. When A.G. Daniells' published his memoirs of the event there is no mention of a furrow. Elder Starr also failed to mention the furrow when he published his account of the event.7

Mrs. White reports in a letter that the group had a favorable opinion of the property:

"They came from their investigation with a much more favorable impression than they had hitherto received. They had found some excellent land, the best they had seen, and they thought it was a favorable spot for the location of the school. They had found a creek of fresh water, cold and sweet, the best they had ever tasted. On the whole, the day of prospecting had made them much more favorable to the place than they had hitherto been."8
According to Arthur White, the committee decided to purchase the property that evening:
"Late that autumn night, the committee voted to purchase the Brettville estate for $4,500."9
Notice that at this point there is still no mention of a dream or a furrow in any of the documentation up to that date.
Late August, 1894 - Mission Board Rejects Purchase of Brettville Estate

The Foreign Mission Board in the USA votes against the purchase of the property. After receiving this news, Elders Rousseau and Daniells take a stance against the Whites, arguing for acquiring property closer to the city.

August 27, 1894 - Mrs. White First Mentions a Dream

Ellen White first mentions in writing that she had had a dream regarding the property. She wrote to Elder S.N. Haskell in the USA:

"In the dream you have heard me relate, words were spoken of land which I was looking at, and after deep ploughing and thorough cultivating, it brought forth a bountiful harvest."10
In a letter to her book editor, Marian Davis, written on the same date, she says:
"In the dream you have heard me relate, words were spoken of land which I was looking at, and after deep plowing and thorough cultivating, it brought forth a bountiful harvest. Having had this matter presented to me at different times, I am more than ever convinced that this is the right location for the school. Since I have been here for a few days and have had opportunity to investigate, I feel more sure than at my first visit that this is the right place. I think any [of the] land which I have seen would produce some kind of crop."11
Thus, we find Mrs. White first mentions in writing about having a dream in late August of 1894. However, the details of the dream are sketchy. Mrs. White, says "words were spoken" but she does not give any indication of what was said or who said it, nor does she mention any furrow, or any opposition to the property. It is uncertain whether news about this dream ever reached the Foreign Mission Board, but on Sept. 11 they approved the purchase of the property.
October/November 1894 - The Ashfield Camp Meeting

At the time of Ashfield camp meeting, the tale of the dream and the furrow was not widely known. Dr. M.G. Kellogg, who had earlier visited the property, had no idea Mrs. White had received divine guidance on the subject despite having discussed that exact subject with her. At the Ashfield camp meeting he reported:

"I do not understand that Sister White has ever been shown that Brettville Estate is the place. In fact she told me herself that she could not ask the Lord as to giving her light as to what piece of land the school should be placed on."12
If Mrs. White had indeed received a divinely inspired dream indicating the Brettville Estate was God's choice, then why did she never mention this to Dr. Kellogg and others? Would it not have saved a lot of trouble looking at other properties, not to mention the ensuing rift between the Whites and Daniells, if she had made it clear up front that God had commanded the purchase of this property?
At the same camp meeting, in response to continued opposition from Elders Daniells and Rousseau,13 Mrs. White first spoke of the dream to a public audience:

"Whoever turned up that plough, I do not know, nor anybody else. It was turned over about two yards wide, just as we would by a plough, and there were different grades of soil. One was standing at the end of that soil shaking their head. 'No,' they said, 'that would not produce. It was not good soil.' I thought that one that has authority spoke and said, 'The soil properly worked, properly educated, will bring its return.'"14
It would appear the impetus behind Mrs. White relating the dream story was to counter the opposition of Daniells and Rousseau. Whether or not Mrs. White's dream had any impact on the final outcome is uncertain. However, it certainly appears that was her intent. This conclusion may be supported by the fact that the union conference went ahead and voted to purchase the property on November 20.
1898 - Dream is Finally Written Out

Mrs. White finally wrote out a full account of her "dream" four years after the event:

"Before I visited Cooranbong, the Lord gave me a dream. In my dream I was taken to the land that was for sale in Cooranbong. Several of our brethren had been solicited to visit the land, and I dreamed that as I was walking upon the ground I came to a neat cut furrow that had been ploughed one quarter of a yard deep, and two yards in length. Two of the brethren who had been acquainted with the rich soil of Iowa were standing before this furrow and saying, 'This is not good land; the soil is not favorable.' But One who has often spoken in counsel was present also, and He said, 'False witness has been borne of this land.' Then He described the properties of the different layers of earth. He explained the science of the soil, and said that this land was adapted to the growth of fruit and vegetables, and that, if well worked, would produce its treasures for the benefit of man. This dream I related to Brother and Sister Starr and my family.
"The next day we were on the cars, on our way to meet others who were investigating the land, and as I was afterward walking on the ground where the trees had been removed, lo, there was a furrow just as I had described it, and the men also who had criticized the appearance of the land. The words were spoken just as I had dreamed."15

In this version of the dream, Mrs. White adds a number of important pieces to the story that were heretofore not mentioned:
She was given the dream prior to visiting Cooranbong.
She claimed to have related the dream to the Starrs and "her family", presumably meaning Willie.
Mrs. White talks about being "on the cars", which refers to the train cars Mrs. White traveled on from Sydney to Dora Creek station (near the property), on the morning of May 23, 1894.16
Mrs. White claims that later in the day, while viewing the property, the two men criticized the appearance of the land.
This is an interesting revision of events! In this dream story we have two men opposing the property, but this is not at all what was reported by her four years earlier in the May 23, 1894, letter already quoted above:

"They came from their investigation with a much more favorable impression than they had hitherto received. They had found some excellent land, the best they had seen, and they thought it was a favorable spot for the location of the school. They had found a creek of fresh water, cold and sweet, the best they had ever tasted. On the whole, the day of prospecting had made them much more favorable to the place than they had hitherto been."17
In fact, none of the accounts of any of those present on May 23, 1894, makes any mention of the opposition of two men. The closest example we have is an undated manuscript from Elder Starr that says in part:
"The next day after she related this dream, Sister White and I were invited by telegram to Dora Creek... Leaving the boat, the ladies sat upon a log lying near and listened to member of the committee express their minds regarding the place. ... I was listening to hear someone say, 'the land is sour' as Sister White said they would. But just near the place where we were gathered, there was a furrow in plain sight, and I saw Sister White looking intently at it. It certainly had all the appearance of the one she had told us of in her dream.
"Leaving the ladies seated on the log, the committee led us men to see the rich land in the large swamp near by. The committee had a man digging a deep ditch to ascertain the full depth of this soil. Here the man was still throwing out rich black soil at a depth of six feet or more. Someone inquired, 'What is the matter with this soil?' 'Oh, nothing,' was the reply, 'it is very rich. ...' Another spoke and said, 'Yes, but the land is sour.'"18

1907 - Dream is Embellished

Thirteen years after the event, Mrs. White makes another mention of the furrow, this time embellishing the tale even further:

"When we came to Avondale to examine the estate, I went with the brethren to the tract of land. After a time we came to the place I had dreamed of, and there was the furrow that I had seen. The brethren looked at it in surprise. How had it come there, they asked. Then I told them the dream that I had had. 'Well,' they replied, 'you can see that the soil is not good.' 'That,' I answered, 'was the testimony borne by the men in my dream, and that was given as the reason why we should not occupy the land. But one stood upon the upturned furrow, and said, 'False testimony has been borne concerning this soil. God can furnish a table in the wilderness.'"19
Now, let us examine some of the differences between four of the written accounts of the event:20
EGW Diary Account
May 1894 EGW Account
1898 EGW Account
1907 Starr Account
(no date)
Where was the furrow in relation to Sister White? No furrow is mentioned. Sister White is sitting with Willie and Emily on a log. Mrs. White spots the furrow while "walking around the ground". "We came to the place I dreamed of, and there was the furrow". All the ladies sat upon a log. The furrow was within eyesight.
Who Opposed the Purchase? The men were favorable to the land. No report of any opposition. Two men criticized the land while standing next to the furrow. Two men criticized the land while standing next to the furrow. One man said the land was "sour", but he was not near the women or the furrow. He was standing by the ditch that had been dug.
Did anyone else have prior knowledge of EGW's dream? No mention of any dream Starr is told of the dream beforehand Mrs. White tells everyone the dream while at the furrow site Starr was apparently the only one aware of the dream
Were the men surprised to see the furrow? No mention of furrow No mention of surprise Men were surprised to see it No mention of surprise--only Starr and EGW took note of the furrow

Conclusions
Ellen White visited the Brettville Estate property "several" times prior to the pivital date of May 23, 1894. In any of these visits she may observed the furrow. In Sister White's diary and letters during May, June, July, and early August, there is no mention made of a furrow. She mentions a dream on Aug. 27, but not a furrow. Daniell's and Starr's published reports of the events do not mention a furrow.21 It was not until November, while facing opposition from Daniells and Rousseau, that Ellen White makes her dream known in public. She does not write it down until nearly 4 years later, and when she does, it conflicts with the notes in her diary which say nothing of any opposition to the purchase. In 1907, 13 years after the event, she embellishes the story even further, again contradicting earlier accounts.

So what did happen? Here is the most likely sequence of events:

Ellen White visits the property prior to May 23, and observes the furrow.
Expecting opposition, Mrs. White privately informs Elder Starr she has seen a furrow in a dream, and that in the dream she heard someone opposing the purchase.
When Starr arrives at the property, he is stunned to find the furrow just as Mrs. White described it, not realizing she had previously observed it on the property.
The men who view the property on May 23 are favorable to it and that evening decide to purchase it. Perhaps, as Starr indicates, one person expressed doubt, but he was not at the furrow, but rather at a ditch some distance away from the furrow.
News of the Foreign Mission Board's rejection reaches Mrs. White. Daniells and Rosseau decide to side with the board against the purchase. Concerned that her project is in jeopardy, she writes Elder Haskell, mentioning the dream. The board soon acquiesces and approves the project.
At the November camp meeting, in order to stop continuing opposition to the purchase from Daniells and Rousseau, Mrs. White embellishes her dream story to indict unnamed individuals who stood by the furrow and opposed the purchase. After this public humiliation, Daniells and Rousseau drop their public opposition, and the purchase is eventually approved.
In later recountings of the event, Mrs. White embellishes the story even further, to make it appear God communicated His desire to purchase the property through her.
Thus, a closer examination casts doubt on the whole furrow tale. Instead of being a story of miraculous divine guidance, it would appear the dream was fabricated, or at least greatly embellished upon, to stifle opposition and manipulate others into following the White's wishes.

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Wedding Blessings Oct 3, 2008 4:51 am
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Not to be trite or anything, but weddings are (almost) always happy occasions and a time to celebrate the joys of life. It is also a time when friends and family of the happy couple can join in with them and help them to celebrate their new life together. To this end, wedding blessings are a good way for you to show your happiness and to share your joy with everyone present.

Wedding blessings of course, is just another way to say “wedding toast” and generally runs along the same lines. Remember here that wedding blessings or toasts, are not supposed to be speeches and should not run into many long and tedious minutes worth of speaking. You want to share your joy, not spread boredom!

Wedding blessings, depending on the person giving them can run the gamut from happy, to sentimental, to rousingly cheerful. This is the time when you need to let your happiness at the joyous turn of events show, and this is when you need to shine.

Of course, into some people’s happiness comes a giant rock of worry, because let’s face it, not everyone can get up in front of a crowd of people and say anything let alone give one of the best wedding blessings ever!

The answer to that of course, is to keep to your chair and let other people handle the speeches, toasts and wedding blessings. But what happens if you are asked to stand up and deliver a toast or wedding blessing?

Well, for one thing, if you have enough time to prepare you can look up some interesting, and funny, or sentimental wedding blessings from a good source which can provide you with a few of these time honored sayings. Or you can start to panic and wonder why this had to happen to you.

Another option is for you to pretend to have laryngitis, but that might not go down too well when you forget yourself and start to talk as soon as the period of wedding blessings and toasts are over and done with!

Of course, since wedding blessings are in no way as long as wedding speeches can be, it is a blessing in itself, and really if you stick with option one from the earlier paragraph (not the laryngitis, but the one where you prepare a wedding blessing in advance), you will find that you are alright and that you have nothing to worry about, well, except for actually standing up and giving the wedding blessings of course!

Muna wa Wanjiru
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Do you belong to classmates? Oct 3, 2008 4:41 am
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Just wondering if you have tried the website. It is very reasonable and you can connect with not only HS Classmates but also classmates from college. I have found many friends and people from my school and other schools. Just google Classmates. I have encouraged many of my classmates to get a free membership.

You can put up photos and messages etc. You can get a 2 year full memberaship for 60 dollars. I think its a good thing to register, put up a pic or 2 and just tell a little about yourself so people will know what happened to you. You can do many things there for free.
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for sale Oct 3, 2008 4:30 am
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Brett Favre's house for sale for $475K

— If you have some spare cash and are looking for that final piece of Brett Favre memorabilia to complete your collection, the former Green Bay Packers quarterback’s home is on the market.

There’s no “for sale” sign in front of the ranch-style home at 2085 Shady Lane, at the corner of Shady Lane and Morris Avenue, but it’s listed by local real estate agency Micoley and Company for $475,000. The nearly 3,000-square-foot home includes four bedrooms and three baths, according to Micoley’s Web site.

Brown County land records indicate the home’s value at $424,900. D.L. Tynes is named the property’s owner, and tax bills are sent to a Hattiesburg, Miss., address. Tynes is Deanna Favre’s maiden name. The Favre family’s permanent home is in Hattiesburg.

Real estate agent Wade Micoley wouldn’t confirm who owns the house, but said it’s been on the market for about 48 to 72 hours.

“I really can’t get into any more than that,” he said.

The sale is one of the final pieces of the Favre retirement drama that gripped Green Bay for much of late summer.

Favre visited the Green Bay area in August, when he came out of retirement. After it briefly looked like he might return to Green Bay, he was traded to the New York Jets.

But his footprint remains in the neighborhood. A driver called out “He’s in New York now,” to a reporter in the neighborhood on Thursday.

Tina Ebert, a nanny for one of Favre’s neighbors for about a year and a half, said she liked the connection. She has seen people come in and out of the home, but didn’t know it was for sale.

“I always thought it was pretty exciting to work across the street from Brett Favre,” she said.
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