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23 minutes in Hell fiasco Aug 4, 2008 9:01 pm
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This is the type of thing that gets people confused and following rainbows that disappear by the time they get there. I apologize to Adams Rib, but this mularchy needs to be exposed for what it is.

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Read with caution because it seems to involve an out of the body experience which I believe is unscriptural. It also involves the Lord Jesus appearing physically before the author and speaking to him. As far as I know, the last physical appearance of the Lord was to Paul who was an apostle. We are not apostles.

With the closing of canon, it is unneedful for the Lord to appear physically or in visions. Familiar spirits can impersonate the Lord and can also give visions since as all who read scripture know, they can masquerade as angels of light and make hell seem more tolerable than reality.

Indeed the hell that the author describes, though he uses the word 'terror' often, seems relatively tolerable. While fire exists in another part of his hell a distance away, some parts of the hell he saw had no fire. It was in total darkness. And though he could hear deafening screams nearby and smell the smell of putrid sulphur, that part of hell does not seem all that bad.

God forbade Lazarus to go back to the surface of the earth to warn unbelievers of the torment of hell. Is it a little presumptuous of the author to claim to have been given the privilege (denied initially to Lazarus) to have gone to hell and come back?

All that said, if you read the book with an open mind (with scripture at the back of your mind), the description of the pits of fire are very vivid and certainly nobody given a choice would desire to be in the pit. The strange horrible 13-foot creatures that attempted to pull his arms and legs apart ('because they have a hatred for man as mankind is made in the image of God') sounds terrifying.

And you could also argue that his account of hell appears more 'scriptural' than the fantastic account given in Mary Baxter's book also on being in hell.

The author's description of his experience in hell is short occupying only a quarter of the book. He devotes the next chapter to explain why he thinks his experience was divine, alluding to many coincidences like meeting various people in his travels who had the same experience as he had plus how some people seem to know he had a hell experience even though he had not told them before. Another chapter on how a person can be saved. And the closing chapter on an faq on hell.

I find the appendix to be useful as it provides a particular aspect on hell and the verses from scripture supporting that aspect. eg evidence that there different degrees of punishment in hell ('It would be more tolerable for sodom and gommora than for thee...') and evidence of humiliation and nakedness in hell ('Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.' Rev 16).

Chan Wenfu
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Thank You Lord Aug 4, 2008 6:46 pm
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Landed some Job opportunities today. Thanks Lord
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Is Jesus my Angel in Heaven? Aug 4, 2008 4:14 pm
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NO

“And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then said he [the angel] unto me, ‘See you do it not: for I am your fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.’”
• Revelation 22:8–9

If Jesus were the angel, John would not have been denied worship of Him. John knew Jesus. He grew up in his neighborhood. He lived in very close contact with Jesus for at least 2½ years with the other disciples. Jesus appeared to Thomas and the other apostles after the resurrection. In John 20:28, when John was present, Thomas exclaimed when Jesus appeared, “My Lord and my God!” Thomas was not rebuked or corrected for that expression of joy. But in Revelation 22:8–9, the angel was not Jesus. He was not worthy of worship and he corrected John.
Finally, Revelation 22:16 shows that there is a distinction between the Jesus Christ and the angel, that they are different personalities.

Strongest Evidence

The passage that completely denies Jesus was an angel of any kind is found in Hebrews chapter 1. This analysis is unique:

“Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
[1] ‘You are my Son, this day have I begotten thee’? [2] And again, ‘I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son’? [3] And again, when he brings in the firstbegotten into the world, he says, ‘And let all the angels of God worship him.’
And of the angels he says, ‘Who makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.’ But unto the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever [literally, the age of the age or the greatest age]: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.”
• Hebrews 1:3–8

Associates for Scriptural Knowledge
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May you all have everything the Lord has for you today! Aug 4, 2008 4:55 am
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Peace, Joy, Hope and the banquet table is open under the atonement of the blood of Jesus Christ!
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Who is Jesus? I am kind of shocked Aug 4, 2008 4:46 am
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If you believe that Jesus was just God's messenger then, how come you don't believe what Jesus said? Jesus said "I and the father are one." (John 10:30)

The reason that I bring this up is there is a very dangerous viewpoint going on around here with a few people that maintain that Jesus was an Angel which is held by Gordy and that he is a Messenger or Angel, held by Windsage.

People, in each day we hear people talk about God, and that does not mean thet the "God" that everyone talks about is the God of Abraham.

Allah is not God, he is traced back to a pagan moon God, and all false gods are from whoom? Satan, thats whoom. There are two forces in this universe and one is the creator of the Universe; our Father God and the other is a fallen angel that wanted to be God.

How can one God be three persons?

The doctrine of the Trinity — that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are each equally and eternally the one true God — is admittedly difficult to comprehend, and yet is the very foundation of Christian truth. Although skeptics may ridicule it as a mathematical impossibility, it is nevertheless a basic doctrine of Scripture as well as profoundly realistic in both universal experience and in the scientific understanding of the cosmos.

Both Old and New Testaments teach the Unity and the Trinity of the Godhead. The idea that there is only one God, who created all things, is repeatedly emphasized in such Scriptures as Isaiah 45:18:

“For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; …I am the Lord; and there is none else.”

A New Testament example is James 2:19:

“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble.”

The three persons of the Godhead are, at the same time, noted in such Scriptures as Isaiah 48:16:

“I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.”

The speaker in this verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by The Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit).

The New Testament doctrine of the Trinity is evident in such a verse as John 15:26, where the Lord Jesus said:

“But when the Comforter is come whom I will send unto you from the Father, He shall testify of me.”

Then there is the baptismal formula:

“baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” (Matthew 28:19).

One name (God) — yet three names!

JESUS — That Jesus, as the only-begotten Son of God, actually claimed to be God, equal with the Father, is clear from numerous Scriptures. For example, He said:

“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:.

HOLY SPIRIT — Some cults falsely teach that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal divine influence of some kind, but the Bible teaches that He is a real person, just as are the Father and the Son. Jesus said:

“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and he will show you things to come” (John 16:13).

TRI-UNITY — The teaching of the Bible concerning the Trinity might be summarized thus. God is a Tri-unity, with each Person of the Godhead equally and fully and eternally God. Each is necessary, and each is distinct, and yet all are one. The three Persons appear in a logical, causal order. The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.

We “see” God and His great salvation in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, then “experience” their reality by faith, through the indwelling presence of His Holy Spirit.

Though these relationships seem paradoxical, and to some completely impossible, they are profoundly realistic, and their truth is ingrained deep in man's nature. Thus, men have always sensed first the truth that God must be “out there,” everywhere present and the First Cause of all things, but they have corrupted this intuitive knowledge of the Father into pantheism and ultimately into naturalism.

Similarly, men have always felt the need to “see” God in terms of their own experience and understanding, but this knowledge that God must reveal Himself has been distorted into polytheism and idolatry. Men have thus continually erected “models” of God, sometimes in the form of graven images, sometimes even in the form of philosophical systems purporting to represent ultimate reality.

Finally, men have always known that they should be able to have communion with their Creator and to experience His presence “within.” But this deep intuition of the Holy Spirit has been corrupted into various forms of false mysticism and fanaticism, and even into spiritism and demonism. Thus, the truth of God's tri-unity is ingrained in man's very nature, but he has often distorted it and substituted a false god in its place.

*Christian Answers
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