 | Blogs > Cathoholic > My Blog > Will the real Church of Jesus Christ, please stand up? |
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You know, this is my first blog. I have never blogged before,so I guess this should be fun. With so many different Christian Churches out there, I believe people have lost sight of what exactly is the Church. Some people will try to tell me that "The Church is the people". Of course I understand that the Church is the people. However, the Church to me is far more then that. It has actual leaders, put in their offices by God. What good is having a Church if we are not required to obey it's teachings? When people tell me they are Christian, I am very confused by that statement. What does it mean to say your a Christian? The answer is that to be a Christian means not only accepting Christ, but being obedient to his teachings. With so many different Churches having their own interpretations on what Christ taught, how can one be certain their being obedient to Jesus, and not to men? I feel nothing but sadness, and remorse for those that mis understand the teachings of the Catholic Church. So often I hear the same propaganda that we are "worshipping" statues, and not Jesus. How sad that peoples hearts have been poisoned into believing things about my Church that it does not even teach. Do any of them not realize that without the Catholic Church, we would not even have Protestant denominations? After all, the only reason Protestantism exists is because their was a Catholic Church to protest against. I consider my Protestant friends brothers and sisters in Christ, but it does sadden me that they view the Catholic faith as evil, in spite of the fact that for over a thousand years, the Catholic Church alone carried the faith, and the good news of Jesus Christ and his apostles. |
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9/27/2007 12:07 pm |
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9/27/2007 1:04 pm |
Hey Cathoholic and welcome to blogs.. I only know that here in England, we are taught in Religious Studies on the different churches, but never about charasmatic churches.. The strive here is to high rank either one of the 2 predominant ones, Church of England or Catholic.. Because alot of our parents had been brought up Church of England, it has been passed down from generation to generation just how false the Catholic church is.. (In that statement, I'm not saying it is) However, people are taught in ignorance by ignorant people who refuse to learn things for themselves and study the teachings either by Pastors/people themselves or the Scripture based studies.. Its sad when people are just led like sheep, and all they do is "baaa"..
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9/27/2007 1:50 pm |
Cathoholic - not all of us see all Catholics that way. Many of us have met many on fire for God Catholics! Thank God for everyone who serves God in anyway! I believe He has true believers in most churches that call themselves Christian. Glad you are here and blogging. You can bring some things and perhaps take some away as well. This is one way we all become one - getting to know each other in the unity of the faith, not in the disagreements of the faith. Thanks for posting, and welcome! To God be the glory! Please see: My Will is not Always His Way but He Will be There With Me and His Plan is Better Anyway! and Where in the World is DraeDrae???
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 9/27/2007 2:29 pm |
I am totally agreein' with you .. infact .. YOU inspired me to write a blog .. Choose today whom you will serve ! .. reminding me of my two gramma's .. both Catholic! psst .. I grew up Catholic .. but am of no denominatin now .. Im just a Jesus People .. but I so LOVE going to Mass every now and again .. though I must look a bit funny as I sit there with this HUGE smile on my face and give hugs instead of shake hands when they do the .. peace be with you .. and also with you .. hehe  welcome and .. you go guy! pay NO attention to the man behind the curtain This message brought to you by the JustinCase Network, sponsor of the Foot n Mouth clubs of America, with your help we WILL find a cure
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9/27/2007 2:32 pm |
Cathoholic - not all of us see all Catholics that way. Many of us have met many on fire for God Catholics! Thank God for everyone who serves God in anyway! I believe He has true believers in most churches that call themselves Christian. Glad you are here and blogging. You can bring some things and perhaps take some away as well. This is one way we all become one - getting to know each other in the unity of the faith, not in the disagreements of the faith. Thanks for posting, and welcome! Amen and Amen. Not one church is without error, not one denomination. BUT the common denominator should always be Jesus Christ. And it is. Welcome to the blogs my brother ! God bless you richly in every step you take. eli. [post 111907]
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9/27/2007 3:12 pm |
Cathoholic: unfortunately it went as it went... No need to "cry" over spilt milk today. I believe in Ecumenical works since Jesus "already" prayed for ALL to become one. A lot here have been exhaustingly trying to keep this Big Church here open to all interconfessional brothership - that is: No one pushes one's own beliefs on to others, rather than discuss them on a dialogue basis; To focus on the similarities rather than the differences. After all due to Jesus himself we may all have ONE Church, ONE Lord, ONE God and ONE Holy Spirit. (Not several undefined Holy Spirits! Neither Holy Minds.) Take a tour into earlier blogs and look "yourself" where the Holy Spirit is and where He's not! Holy Peace! BB
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 9/27/2007 7:04 pm |
Bro I don't agree with a lot when it comes to Catholicism and it's teachings and practices but then I am a protestant [protester]. But I known some very wonderful born again Catholics who I've had the pleasure of fellow shipping with. God see's the heart of each person and I am sure there are just as many Protestants sitting in Church's that have never had a life changing relationship with Jesus Christ. We are saved by trusting in His finished work on the cross for us in dying for our sins and when truly believing we are willing to repent [turn around] and live our lives for Him. The just shall live by faith. Welcome to the blogs brother! ....You will meet others here who will not accept you as a brother and will have to learn who they are and my advice is just ignore and avoid them, they don't consider me a Christian brother either because I don't agree with there extreme views of Calvinism. Pick and chose your friends wisely here and you can argue or avoid the others but auguring with them is pointless and completely fruitless. You'll get to know them very quickly as we all have. A text out of context is but mere pretext
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9/27/2007 8:31 pm |
"Trenches dug with in our hearts. Mothers, Brothers, sisters torn apart. And the Battles just begun, to win the victory Jesus won"(U.2-Irish Rock group) All my life I have been brought up with the religious bigotry between catholics and Protestants,many people have lost their life's over it in my city,(Glasgow).It`s been a long journey for the Irish and the west coast scot`s.But we are getting there. Brother you will always meet bigots,you may even meet some in BC,but don`t be discouraged by them,there are plenty of as who believe that if Jesus is your saviour,then your a christian. We may disagree on things,but Hey!,I don`t even agree with every thing my own church preaches,but the love of the people keep me there. GBY-enjoy Blogging. stevie "This is the year of the favor of our God" "Your time has come to shine. All your dreams are on their way. See how they shine."(Bridge over troubled waters)
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9/27/2007 9:18 pm |
Welcome to the blogs - Always good to see someone from the chatrooms join us here. God bless you!
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9/27/2007 9:39 pm |
Hello Frazzie, I just wanted to say thank you very much for taking some of your free time to read my humble blog. You are a true friend indeed to suffer my ramblings. Hope all is well with you. God bless.
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9/27/2007 9:55 pm |
Due to time constraints I am afraid I cannot respond to every single post here as much as I would like to. However, I thank each and everyone of you for taking the time to consider some of the things I have said. Even if we all clearly disagree on many practices as far as Christianity is concerned. While I am always for trying to point out the things we all share, the fact is we do have differences, and it is for that very reason that we should discuss and have dialogue over them. Trying to ignore them or sweep them under the table as if they do not exist simply leaves us in a place of limbo. No growth can happen unless we do discuss that which seperate us. I wish to make the following points and you are all free to believe what you wish. #1 If it is true that it really does not matter what Church you go to, then why do we have different Christian Churches all teaching different doctrines? If one Church is just as good as another, then why the need for denominations at all? Clearly these disagreements are not over trivial matters. They have to do with what is considered "essential" teachings of the faith. I have heard some tell me that all Christian Churches have error in it. If anyone here believes their Church teaches some things that are in error, then I ask you, why follow and support a Church that is clearly misleading others in the faith? Should we support a Church that teaches what we know to be "errors" by attending it? Also, the reason why the Churches bother to label themselves, is to specifically point out how they are not the same as another Church. The question is, did Christs true Church have a label to eventually seperate itself from false Churches? The answer is yes. Yes it did. Because of the rise of a pagan belief system called Gnosticism, the early Christian Church did start to label itself, in order to help differentiate from false Churches. That is why the early Christian fathers referred to the Church as "Catholic". Some Christian Churches teach that Christ is present in the Eucharist, and another one teaches that he is not. One of these Churches is teaching the truth and the other is not. Why continue following a Church if you think it is teaching something untrue? Does anyone see the point I am trying to make? Sooner or later you have to come to that conclusion that one Church is not as good as another. Good day to you all, and may the peace of the lord be with each of you.
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9/28/2007 6:44 am |
I, for one am not into religion or denominations. I believe it's all about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I can sit in a garage all day and never be a car, I can sit in a church until Jesus comes and it won't make me a Christian. I'm just a blood bought child of the Living God! I am not my own.........I was bought with a price. Thank You Jesus! Religious people scare me. Spiritual people inspire me. Welcome  to our little corner of cyber space.Enjoy your stay. Lord, keep one hand on my shoulder and one hand over my mouth!
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9/28/2007 6:55 am |
I, for one am not into religion or denominations. I believe it's all about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I can sit in a garage all day and never be a car, I can sit in a church until Jesus comes and it won't make me a Christian. I'm just a blood bought child of the Living God! I am not my own.........I was bought with a price. Thank You Jesus! Religious people scare me. Spiritual people inspire me. Welcome to our little corner of cyber space.Enjoy your stay. YES !!!!! EXCELLENTLY SAID  AMEN. [post 111907]
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9/28/2007 10:24 am |
See, I find the posistion of "I just need a relationship with Jesus and I do not need to follow any Church" a real cop out. This way, you do not have to be subject to any ecclesiastical authority. Jesus clearly did give us a Church. How can a person claim to have any relationship with Jesus Christ, when they do not follow the teachings of the Church (Which is called the body of Christ)? Who here claims we do not have to listen to our spiritual leaders? I mean, since they were appointed by God, you cannot simply "ignore" them as you wish. If you are not following the Church's doctrines *which according to scripture come from God himself through the Church* I do not see how your personal relationship with Jesus can develop. Since your loving Jesus the way YOU wan't to, and not the way he has instructed us to (which is inside the Church not outside of it) Please consider those thoughts today. God bless.
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9/28/2007 10:30 am |
It is not an either or option of: A.Follow the Church OR B. Follow Jesus Because the Church is Christs body, following and obeying The Church is really just obeying Christ himself. To decide your not going to follow anything but an "invisible Church" (which I find no references in the bible that Christs Church on earth is invisible) rather, his true Church should be visible on earth in the form of the Apostles and their disciples.
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9/28/2007 11:56 am |
By the way... Sorry! YOUR KIND OF ZEALOUS WAY DOES NOT FORWARD ANY ECUMENICAL WORKS!
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9/28/2007 5:13 pm |
I will leave it up to you to discern whether I am trying to make a point, or if it is just me being "zealous".
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9/28/2007 7:36 pm |
See, I find the posistion of "I just need a relationship with Jesus and I do not need to follow any Church" a real cop out. This way, you do not have to be subject to any ecclesiastical authority. Jesus clearly did give us a Church. How can a person claim to have any relationship with Jesus Christ, when they do not follow the teachings of the Church (Which is called the body of Christ)? Who here claims we do not have to listen to our spiritual leaders? I mean, since they were appointed by God, you cannot simply "ignore" them as you wish. If you are not following the Church's doctrines *which according to scripture come from God himself through the Church* I do not see how your personal relationship with Jesus can develop. Since your loving Jesus the way YOU wan't to, and not the way he has instructed us to (which is inside the Church not outside of it) Please consider those thoughts today. God bless. A text out of context is but mere pretext
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9/28/2007 7:38 pm |
You're making a "zealous" point! We love and we'll be prepared to die for the same LORD! Reflect!
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9/30/2007 11:19 am |
See, I find the posistion of "I just need a relationship with Jesus and I do not need to follow any Church" a real cop out. This way, you do not have to be subject to any ecclesiastical authority. Jesus clearly did give us a Church. How can a person claim to have any relationship with Jesus Christ, when they do not follow the teachings of the Church (Which is called the body of Christ)? Who here claims we do not have to listen to our spiritual leaders? I mean, since they were appointed by God, you cannot simply "ignore" them as you wish. If you are not following the Church's doctrines *which according to scripture come from God himself through the Church* I do not see how your personal relationship with Jesus can develop. Since your loving Jesus the way YOU wan't to, and not the way he has instructed us to (which is inside the Church not outside of it) Please consider those thoughts today. God bless. For lack of a better example, I choose birth control. The doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church prohibits the use of birth control. With sufficient venue shopping, one can locate a priest who can look past the use of birth control in favor of other lifestyle issues. So, in theory, there is a doctrine, in practice there is a very strong suggestion. Aren't we, then, submitting to the views of others when we should, if we had a personal relationship with God, deal directly with Him? Are Roman Catholics who use birth control excommunicated? If one is excommunicated, does he wear a sign denoting such? Or, does God deal with folks individually? Belief in God represents a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints
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9/30/2007 1:33 pm |
Skariff, I am not stating that the beginning to coming to God starts with having a "personal relationship with him". However, the notion that following the doctrines of the Catholic Church means your not following Christs teachings makes no sense. Your saying on one hand "Following the Catholic Church means following someone else's personal view of God" But is that not what you are doing by simply choosing to follow your own personal view of God? In the end, we always end up following someones "personal view of God" you have deemed that your own personal view of God is the highest authority on how God is to be viewed. Individualism is what has caused the splintering into different Christian denominations. Everyone wants to see God in "a way that is pleasing to themselves". The problem with that is that due to our fallen human nature, we end up creating a God of our own choosing, and not the one that was preached of by Christ Jesus, and his Apostles. By dealing and following the Church we are "Dealing directly with him". There is no "mediation" going on. You will note, that Priests differ in their homilies, but their homilies do not go against Church doctrine on articles of faith. For example, no Catholic Priest will give a homily that states that birth control is acceptable, and that the Holy Trinity is not a true teaching. If you have found a Priest that "looks past" the use of birth control, he is not teaching the Churches view or even the Christian view. He is sharing his own personal view. Just because we have bad Catholic Priests that may teach "birth control is cool" That does not give an individual a license to commit that particular sin. Do not confuse individual viewpoints with the viewpoint of the Church as a whole. Which in the end, is the deciding factor which should shape the views of every good Priest, or Christian. God did give us a "human method" for seeking understanding and instruction. That human method given was the Church. That is why Christ sent out 12 apostles to "Preach to all nations". The Church's mission is to guide with the authority of the Holy Spirit which comes from God. Once again Skariff, I am not saying A: Obey the Church OR B: Obey God I am saying it's C: Obey the Church whose eccelesiastical authority comes from God. Excommunication is an invisible mark. Obviously they do not where a sign on them. I hope this clears up any confusion. Also, since you do use birth control I want you to consider this question Do you think Jesus approves of birth control? And also this Just because Jesus never spoke about Birth Control, does that mean you should assume that he condoned it? These tough moral questions is exactly why the Church exists. God did not make it so you and everybody else had to "figure it out" all by themselves through some "good vibes given by the Holy Spirit". He did so by placing Peter in charge of his visible Church here on earth. The Church has the final say on matters of doctrine. The Bible is proof that the Churchs say is what we are to go by. Remember, it was the Catholic Church that set the canon of the New Testament. It used it's authority through the Holy Spirit to discern which books are to go into the Bible and which books were not. This decision was not made by scripture, it was made by the Church. Think on that. "Matthew 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector." Why on earth should we simply "ignore all religious authority" when this verse clearly outlines we are required to obey religious authority? Once again you need to beat this concept into your mind Skariff so you have a clearer picture. FOLLOWING THE "RELIGIOUS" CHURCH OF CHRIST IS NOT FOLLOWING DOCTRINES OF RELIGION, IT IS FOLLOWING THE APOSTOLIC CHURCH FOUNDED BY JESUS AND THE APOSTLES SO OBEYING IT IS OK!
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9/30/2007 1:36 pm |
One more thing Skariff, You do realize that it is in human nature to rebel against "religious" authority right? Does anyone here remember that some of the Jews rebelled against Moses even though God had given him AUTHORITY to govern his people? In this same way, people reject the authority of Christs Church here on earth (the Catholic Church) in order to live in a way that is more pleasing to themselves, not to God. (One example of this is people choosing to have pre-marital sex, or use birth control even though the authoritive Church has already called these things sinful acts) It is not hard to imagine that all we are seeing is the same old thing we always see. People rebelling from God's authority and then saying "I dont follow any mans authority I just follow God's" But the truth is, you do following the authority of "men". That one man is simply yourself.
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9/30/2007 3:39 pm |
One more thing Skariff, You do realize that it is in human nature to rebel against "religious" authority right? Does anyone here remember that some of the Jews rebelled against Moses even though God had given him AUTHORITY to govern his people? In this same way, people reject the authority of Christs Church here on earth (the Catholic Church) in order to live in a way that is more pleasing to themselves, not to God. (One example of this is people choosing to have pre-marital sex, or use birth control even though the authoritive Church has already called these things sinful acts) It is not hard to imagine that all we are seeing is the same old thing we always see. People rebelling from God's authority and then saying "I dont follow any mans authority I just follow God's" But the truth is, you do following the authority of "men". That one man is simply yourself. Belief in God represents a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints
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9/30/2007 4:27 pm |
Like I said, your the primary example of the problem plaguing current Christianity. By choosing to follow no "religious authority" you yourself have made yourself the authority figure or self-appointed bishop. A posistion contradicted in the bible itself. Christ established an authoritive Church. Not one without any authority to govern the flock. So if you think you do not have to be obedient to any Church authority, your the one who has a bad relationship with God, not a good one. One cannot claim to have a good relationship with God while breaking his laws. "not everyone who says lord lord will enter the kingdom of heaven" It is those who are obedient to Christ who will enter heaven. If Christ told us to obey his Church and we do not, we do not have a "good" relationship. Also, Christ is present in the sacraments, so if you wish to have a good relationship with Christ, I suggest participating in the Holy Eucharist, which is his actual body. You cannot get much more personal in a relationship then that. And of course you have decided following mans ways are "OK if that means following yourself".Your happy with where your at with God for the very same reason an athiest is happy with their life without God. No standards or requirements you have to live up to, except for the ones YOU decide are important. Much like atheism. God does not even come into this equation when you think about it. Since the God you created in your mind, is not the God spoken of in the New Testament.
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9/30/2007 7:29 pm |
My entire point is simply this. If you need a religious hierarchy to fulfill you relationship with God, then that is exactly what you should do. I respect that, I will honor that and I shall not interfere with that. All I ask is the same in return. The mere fact you belong to the Roman Catholic Faith does not make you a better or worse Christian than I, just a different Christian. I look at the Bible as a philosophical work designed to be taken as a whole, not broken into snippets to be cast about as undeniable Truths about Christianity or the way I should approach it. I believe the secret of the Bible is finding the consistencies of thought and action and developing a guideline to be emulated. If you happen to interpret the Bible differently than I, then you do so on your own volition not at the behest of a bishop or a Pope. Ultimatly, a person's decisions on Christianity fall upon himself. Belief in God represents a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints
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9/30/2007 9:37 pm |
My entire point is simply this. If you need a religious hierarchy to fulfill you relationship with God, then that is exactly what you should do. I respect that, I will honor that and I shall not interfere with that. All I ask is the same in return. The mere fact you belong to the Roman Catholic Faith does not make you a better or worse Christian than I, just a different Christian. I look at the Bible as a philosophical work designed to be taken as a whole, not broken into snippets to be cast about as undeniable Truths about Christianity or the way I should approach it. I believe the secret of the Bible is finding the consistencies of thought and action and developing a guideline to be emulated. If you happen to interpret the Bible differently than I, then you do so on your own volition not at the behest of a bishop or a Pope. Ultimatly, a person's decisions on Christianity fall upon himself. If you are looking for consistencies of thought in the Bible you will find some, but some of those consistencies you are missing are not found in scripture, some of those thoughts came about outside of scripture through oral tradition. As well as the early fathers of the faith, such as Saint Augustine or Thomas Aquinas. It is in light of tradition that we have an understanding of how the bible is to be interpreted. As well as how it cannot be interpreted. My interpretation of scripture does not rest on my own. or a single bishop, or a Priest. It is in light of the councils of the early Christian Church. Furthermore, I have never stated that one requires a "hierarchy" to fulfill my relationship with God. Only that obedience is part of having a relationship with God. How can one have a fufilling relationship with God while disobeying his commandments?
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10/1/2007 12:08 pm |
As soon as you discover THE Universal Truth, please take the time to inform me of it. Philosophers from Thales to Studs Terkel have been searching for this elusive entity, so I doubt seriously either of us has found it. All we have is the Truth as we see it. There is a God, and we are not Him. I have read both Augustine and Aquinas and neither of them have demonstrated to me a discovery of any universal Truth either. They have philosophies, in other words hypotheses, as to a possible Truth, but no evidence of finding universality. Likewise, neither has demonstrated to me any better way of worshipping my God. As for violating the Ten Commandments, I'm at a loss to determine how I have done so. My best guess is keeping the Sabbath Day to keep it Holy, which I do. I simply choose to do it in places other than a church or temple. I agree that obedience is part of any relationship with God, except, once again, that obedience is very personal. That obedience pervades every decision, every choice and every thing I do. I have discovered that, for me at least, the government of the Church (I call myself a recovering Roman Catholic) isn't as necessary as I once thought it to be in the daily living of my life. That's not to say I shun the govermental church for I've found there are many similarities between the way I live my life and make my decisions and the way I was raised. But, I have left much of the dogma to the faithful and find I am still a child of God, and He loves me. Belief in God represents a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints
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10/1/2007 8:32 pm |
As soon as you discover THE Universal Truth, please take the time to inform me of it. Philosophers from Thales to Studs Terkel have been searching for this elusive entity, so I doubt seriously either of us has found it. All we have is the Truth as we see it. There is a God, and we are not Him. I have read both Augustine and Aquinas and neither of them have demonstrated to me a discovery of any universal Truth either. They have philosophies, in other words hypotheses, as to a possible Truth, but no evidence of finding universality. Likewise, neither has demonstrated to me any better way of worshipping my God. As for violating the Ten Commandments, I'm at a loss to determine how I have done so. My best guess is keeping the Sabbath Day to keep it Holy, which I do. I simply choose to do it in places other than a church or temple. I agree that obedience is part of any relationship with God, except, once again, that obedience is very personal. That obedience pervades every decision, every choice and every thing I do. I have discovered that, for me at least, the government of the Church (I call myself a recovering Roman Catholic) isn't as necessary as I once thought it to be in the daily living of my life. That's not to say I shun the govermental church for I've found there are many similarities between the way I live my life and make my decisions and the way I was raised. But, I have left much of the dogma to the faithful and find I am still a child of God, and He loves me. Because I have stated before, you have cast off the "Burden" of obeying religious authority, and put on the easy burden of appealing to your own place as the end authority. Your God of course still loves you, but you simply ignore those he places in front of you to help better explain the error of your ideas. God loving you does not change the fact that you follow yourself not him. If Christ loving us was the criterion for thinking were doing the right thing, I could do whatever the hell I wanted. All we have is the truth as we see it? Wow, I am sure the devil agrees with you too, since according to you their is no absolute truth just the "truth as we see it". Your words not mine pal. Truth that is only truth for you and not someone else is not truth at all. It's called "subjective". In which case their is no such thing as truth according to what you just told me. Wow, I really do not know what more to say to someone who thinks that truth is limited to an individual. I can see that this truly is non-sense, I wonder if even my fellow Christian Protestants could agree with that line of thinking. It's very disturbing the path that you are walking down. But your right, God does love you. You are still his creation and he will not deny that. However, he does wish you to turn away from this subjective "truth" you have embraced.
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10/2/2007 2:45 am |
Your judgmentalism is quite offensive. You, it appears, have assumed the "holier than thou" attitude of the Fundamentalists. If you would take the time to actually think about my words and actually apply them to the real world, you'd see my obervations do not lack substance. I have no idea how many religions there are in the world, but that figure is unimportant. The fact there are innumerable methods for people to attend to their respective Gods indicates quite clearly the absence of a single Truth. There are but two truths, there is a God and we are not Him. That's about as universal as it gets. If there were but one single method of worshipping God, wouldn't there be but a single religion? So what does this irrefutable fact mean in an area bereft of hard evidence? It appears, in your world, that all other methods of attending to God are lacking in substance and apparently in Truth. Now, lest you take unbrage at my "bereft of hard evidence" statement, at least take the time to contemplate some reasons for the existence of myriad religions in the world. So, extrapolating from your condemnation of my position, are you saying that all other forms of religion, worship or attending to God are inferior to yours? If that is your position, then you should recognize there are more non-Christians in the world than Christians. This is not a statement comparable to "50,000 Frenchmen can't be wrong", it's merely a strong indication that Roman Catholicism does not account for the sole method of attending to God. This is even more persuasive once one realizes the other religions are as zealous as you in defense of their beliefs. My position recognizes you are not wrong. It also recognizes the remainder of the religions of the world are not wrong either. By choosing Roman Catholicism, you have made a personal choice about your method of attending to your God. While many others have made the same choice, your reasons remain your own and are couched in the personal choices you've made in deciding how you will conduct your relationship with Him. While I disagree with the choices you've made, they are not mine to make and therefore I respect your personal decisions. It works for you, and in your world that's all that really matters. All I'm saying is I expect the same repect in my personal decisions. I suspect you may struggle with this concept. That is of absolutely no moment to me. You see, the very purpose of the various religions of the world is to convince their legions of followers that theirs is the Way and the Truth, and, perhaps more importantly, to maintain that belief. I make no judgments on any of the reasons for this effort, I simply have discovered yours is not the path for me to have a meaningful relationship with God. My discovery leads me to a more personal relationship with Him, rather than an organized hierarchical approach. I guess the ultimate question is whether your beliefs are designed to worship God and develope a relationship with Him or are your beliefs designed to proselytize your chosen religion as the one true and singularly meaningful method of attending to a Universal God. Good luck on your journey. Belief in God represents a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints
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10/2/2007 5:45 am |
Welcome to blogland! Thank you for a thought-provoking entry. I am one of "they" that you refer to ie Im a Protestant! (I hate that label...) Labels exist because of the human need to communicate at least resonably, if not totally accurately. Imagine trying to give someone street directions if there were no street names?! If we are going to have inter-group dialogue, (as I think you admirably welcome) we need a vocabulary - otherwise dialogue gets tedious and long-winded. Re one point - "I have heard some tell me that all Christian Churches have error in it. If anyone here believes their Church teaches some things that are in error, then I ask you, why follow and support a Church that is clearly misleading others in the faith? Should we support a Church that teaches what we know to be "errors" by attending it?" Point taken, but it aint that simple! Do you sit down to have a drink with a friend in a pub or at home only if you both agree on totally everything political/theological etc? I doubt it. If we all left our local fellowship/denomination/rabbit-hutch/community woteva we call it, then we would be critically damaging the ability of the church (the body of Christ) to function. Divide and conquer - and I believe we are in a battle - ultimately against satan. he is the one who will love (not that he can love...) to see folk leaving churches. We need discernment as to when enough-is-enough in a church/denominational problem and leave. I am not saying we should put up with heresy or immorality, but neither should we leave simply because of relatively monir issues. PS I have read Francis McNutt (USA charismatic Catholic) with great pleasure and blessing. His healing ministry is awesome. JF$ (the Presby-angli-vinelican!
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10/2/2007 8:59 am |
I feel your sadness and share the same over the fragmentation that has happened in the body of Christ. I was raised Catholic and still attend Catholic and a non-denominational churches. I've seen the same thing in every church - they're all made up of imperfect people - us, with all our faults and good qualities. Thank God He sees beyond all of it and right into our hearts. The only way to truly know that we are following Christ is to dig into the Word ourselves and test it all according to what God says. Check out 1John 4:1. " ...don't always believe everything you hear just because someone says it is a message from God: test it first to see if it really is." This will become even more important as we get closer to the time when Christ comes again. Peace to all in Christ.
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10/2/2007 7:26 pm |
I feel your sadness and share the same over the fragmentation that has happened in the body of Christ. I was raised Catholic and still attend Catholic and a non-denominational churches. I've seen the same thing in every church - they're all made up of imperfect people - us, with all our faults and good qualities. Thank God He sees beyond all of it and right into our hearts. The only way to truly know that we are following Christ is to dig into the Word ourselves and test it all according to what God says. Check out 1John 4:1. " ...don't always believe everything you hear just because someone says it is a message from God: test it first to see if it really is." This will become even more important as we get closer to the time when Christ comes again. Peace to all in Christ.
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10/3/2007 6:31 pm |
The entire History of the Church tells than JESUS CHRIST is the LORD! And the Gospels have been the first authority for ALL Christians who believe in the Trinity! That's it! I don't have any problems anymore in sharing the Eucharist, or the Holy Communion, or the Lord's Supper... whatever one prefers to call it! I told you earlier IT WENT AS IT WENT! But Christ can't be divided! He is the same and he will always be the same! The "zealous sword" must be directed ONLY to those that confuses His teaching or even degrade it!! That's what I meant and this is what I will always mean! The apostles ARE indeed those who make the Gospel trustable!! BB
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10/4/2007 7:53 pm |
Hello Cathoholic, Jesus said his yoke is easy, so it should be the same with his Church. God bless
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10/6/2007 1:35 pm |
Catholic, I spent my first 18 years being told I was "saved" by my christening. Along the way, I made my first confession, first communion, confirmation, and the 6\th grade in a catholic school. I even came one first friday short of a plenary indulgence. None of the above got me saved. Those of us that see the Lord Jesus Christ as the Head of the "church" His body, see no place for any man between us and Him. St. Paul said that there were differences in administrations, but only one body. I am a member of that body in the earth. I rejoice with all the other members of that same body. Being "born again" means I died to all the "oaths" I took at confirmation, and started a new life following Jesus Christ alone. I am not a "protestant", but rather a "believer". I am an ambassador for the Risen Lord Jesus Christ, washed in His blood.
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10/6/2007 8:16 pm |
Catholic, I spent my first 18 years being told I was "saved" by my christening. Along the way, I made my first confession, first communion, confirmation, and the 6\th grade in a catholic school. I even came one first friday short of a plenary indulgence. None of the above got me saved. Those of us that see the Lord Jesus Christ as the Head of the "church" His body, see no place for any man between us and Him. St. Paul said that there were differences in administrations, but only one body. I am a member of that body in the earth. I rejoice with all the other members of that same body. Being "born again" means I died to all the "oaths" I took at confirmation, and started a new life following Jesus Christ alone. I am not a "protestant", but rather a "believer". I am an ambassador for the Risen Lord Jesus Christ, washed in His blood. If you have turned away from the Catholic faith, it is only because you clearly did not fully understand it. If feel nothing but sadness for you. Being an ambassador for Christ means obeying him. No where does the bible teach that you do not have to obey those in a posistion of ecclesiastical authority. Being saved is a process. Not a one time event. Saint Paul did say that there were differences in administration. But he did not support different Churches popping up each teaching different doctrines. You also have no authority to interpret the bible, let alone come to a conclusion of what Paul stated and then apply that verse in such a way that somehow justifies your not being part of the Catholic Church. There is a difference between having a specific role in a Church, and simply forming your very own and teaching an entirely different gospel then the one the Catholic Church (and eastern orthodox Church) has taught for over 2000 yrs. How can one say they believe in Jesus, when they reject him in the sacraments? Such as the Holy Eucharist? Peace be with you.
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10/7/2007 5:02 am |
If you have turned away from the Catholic faith, it is only because you clearly did not fully understand it. If feel nothing but sadness for you. Being an ambassador for Christ means obeying him. No where does the bible teach that you do not have to obey those in a posistion of ecclesiastical authority. Being saved is a process. Not a one time event. Saint Paul did say that there were differences in administration. But he did not support different Churches popping up each teaching different doctrines. You also have no authority to interpret the bible, let alone come to a conclusion of what Paul stated and then apply that verse in such a way that somehow justifies your not being part of the Catholic Church. There is a difference between having a specific role in a Church, and simply forming your very own and teaching an entirely different gospel then the one the Catholic Church (and eastern orthodox Church) has taught for over 2000 yrs. How can one say they believe in Jesus, when they reject him in the sacraments? Such as the Holy Eucharist? Peace be with you. "Being saved is a process." If your salvation was not completed on a cross almost 2000 years ago you are not saved the same way I was. We are to follow the leading of our parents, until we get married. Then we are to leave and cleave. We are to follow church authorities until we become "sheep" of Jesus Christ. Then we are to follow Him only. It is clear by what you have written, that you are not yet one of His sheep; but rather a lamb in the care of hirelings. When the wolf comes, they will not stick around to "save" you. By the way, you have no authority to tell me; "You also have no authority to interpret the bible." I am an ambassador for the Risen Lord Jesus Christ, washed in His blood.
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10/7/2007 7:34 am |
Now I see a major error in your doctrine. "Being saved is a process." If your salvation was not completed on a cross almost 2000 years ago you are not saved the same way I was. We are to follow the leading of our parents, until we get married. Then we are to leave and cleave. We are to follow church authorities until we become "sheep" of Jesus Christ. Then we are to follow Him only. It is clear by what you have written, that you are not yet one of His sheep; but rather a lamb in the care of hirelings. When the wolf comes, they will not stick around to "save" you. By the way, you have no authority to tell me; "You also have no authority to interpret the bible." I am an ambassador for the Risen Lord Jesus Christ, washed in His blood. Please provide me with your scriptural reference to where the bible says "Once you become a follower of Jesus you ignore the Church authorities that Jesus established" Now that I would be VERY interested to learn more about Prophet Bob. also, where does the bible say that you are the sole interpreter of what it's meanings are? Please, instruct me in my ignorance.
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10/7/2007 8:23 pm |
It is written that we will be judged for what we know whether were Christian, Catholic, Baptist, etc. I believe if were doing everything we can to serve God and we feel that we are serving "HIM" than whose to point a finger and say whose a Christian and who is not? I am Christian and my brother is Catholic...aside from him being my brother, he is too is my brother in Christ. He serves the same God I serve so I say this again....we will be judged for what we know....people shouldn't point fingers to ANY religion...who are we to say which religion is right and which one is wrong? Like you said, it is how we live our lives and carry out God's Word...that is the true test of time...
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10/7/2007 8:27 pm |
It is written that we will be judged for what we know whether were Christian, Catholic, Baptist, etc. I believe if were doing everything we can to serve God and we feel that we are serving "HIM" than whose to point a finger and say whose a Christian and who is not? I am Christian and my brother is Catholic...aside from him being my brother, he too is my brother in Christ. He serves the same God I serve so I say this again....we will be judged for what we know....people shouldn't point fingers to ANY religion...who are we to say which religion is right and which one is wrong? Like you said, it is how we live our lives and carry out God's Word...that is the true test of time...
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10/8/2007 6:12 am |
So you do acknowledge the Eastern Church. And possibly others just as ancient as the Roman Catholic. © Feel free to come see my Blog. And Enjoy! If you want to meet me or just get to know me.  Hallelu-Yah! Praise Yah! wpx1 ©
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10/8/2007 6:33 am |
Please provide me with your scriptural reference to where the bible says "Once you become a follower of Jesus you ignore the Church authorities that Jesus established" Now that I would be VERY interested to learn more about Prophet Bob. also, where does the bible say that you are the sole interpreter of what it's meanings are? Please, instruct me in my ignorance. A "Pope" they will not follow because they know not the voice of strangers. Jesus did not get "elected", He got Resurrected. I am an ambassador for the Risen Lord Jesus Christ, washed in His blood.
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10/8/2007 7:03 am |
Both WERE/are true: (See next post.) Hbr 13: 17 Obey those who have the rule over you, and submit yourselves -- for they watch for your souls, as those who must give an account -- that they may do it with joy, and not with grief. For that {would be} unprofitable for you. 1Pe 5: 3 Not like being lords over {God's} heritage, but being examples to the flock. Rom 14: 4 Who are you who judges another man's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Yes/And he shall be held up, because God is able to make him stand. Rom 14: 5 One person considers one day above another; another considers every day {alike}. Let each person be fully persuaded in his own mind. 2Cr 1: 24 ... not that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy; for by faith you stand. Rom 12: 16 {Be} of the same mind toward one another. Don't mind high things, but condescend to people of low estate. Don't be wise in your own conceits/eyes/opinion/estimation. © Feel free to come see my Blog. And Enjoy! If you want to meet me or just get to know me. Hallelu-Yah! Praise Yah! wpx1 ©
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10/8/2007 7:10 am |
Both are true: Luk 18: 8b ... when the Son of man comes, will He find faith on the Earth? 2Th 2: 3 Let no one deceive you by any means. For {that day shall not come}, except there come first a falling away/an apostasy, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.... 2Ti 3: 1-2, 5 This know too, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves... having a form of Godliness, but denying its Power. From such turn away. Hbr 10: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as {is} the manner/habit of some, but exhorting/encouraging {one another}, and so much the more, as you see the/that Day approaching. Hbr 3: 13 But exhort/encourage one another {{fellow believers}} DAILY... lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness/deceptiveness/trickiness of sin. ... Mar 12: 31 And the second {greatest Command/Commandment} is similar: You should Love the person nearby you {{believer or not}} as yourself. There is no other Commandment greater than these. Jhn 13: 34-35 A NEW Commandment I give to you, That you Love one another {believers}; as I have loved you, that you really Love one another. By this all shall know that you are My disciples/students/pupils/followers, IF you have Love {from} one to another. 1Pe 4: 8 And above all things have fervent Love among yourselves {{believers}}, because Love shall cover the/a multitude of sins. Key: {} = words added by a version of the Bible (but see /). {{}} = words added by me. / = from various versions, dictionary, or from me. Base translation = KJV, updated manually by me. Book abbreviations, from BlueLetterBible. Nontraditional spacing after the colon in a reference is to avoid accidental "smilies". Hallelu-Yah! Praise Yah! © Feel free to come see my Blog. And Enjoy! If you want to meet me or just get to know me. Hallelu-Yah! Praise Yah! wpx1 ©
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10/8/2007 9:32 pm |
So you do acknowledge the Eastern Church. And possibly others just as ancient as the Roman Catholic. ©
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10/8/2007 9:40 pm |
It is written that we will be judged for what we know whether were Christian, Catholic, Baptist, etc. I believe if were doing everything we can to serve God and we feel that we are serving "HIM" than whose to point a finger and say whose a Christian and who is not? I am Christian and my brother is Catholic...aside from him being my brother, he too is my brother in Christ. He serves the same God I serve so I say this again....we will be judged for what we know....people shouldn't point fingers to ANY religion...who are we to say which religion is right and which one is wrong? Like you said, it is how we live our lives and carry out God's Word...that is the true test of time... I will happily conceed the point that we will be judged by what we have all been given. Catholic and Protestant alike. I have never stated that non-Catholics are not Christians (just for the record). Also, I agree that we should not point fingers to any religion, but as Saint Peter stated we should have a ready defense made for our own (Christianity of course). We can know which religion is right and which one is simply lacking in the fullness of truth. It is clear that any religion which denies that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, regardless of what truths it may possess, is lacking in the fullness of truth I do not wish to confuse you with the idea that I think non-Christians are "bad" or that everything they do is wrong. But your absolutely right, to whom much is given much will be expected. It is for this reason that I do have dialogue with non-Catholics. Because I have a moral responsibility to help those that wish to learn the FULLNESS of their faith. If someone is truly seeking the truth they will discover that Jesus never established any of the denominational Churches. The Catholic Church is NOT a denomination. It is the Church the other denominations are denominating from.
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10/9/2007 5:40 am |
Cathoholic, hey. keep blogging and | ||||||||||||||||||||
