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2/17/2007 7:27 pm |
I may be a sleazy lowlife who is always on the take, but I ain't that low! I voted NO! Slandering Dr. James Dobson was this last straw with ole Raul!
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2/17/2007 7:31 pm |
I support telling the truth if someone is bringing about the ruining of souls. Jesus warned of the false doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. I should think that to point out a false minister would be much less cruel than allowing them to deceive thousands without making a whimper, for fear someone might accuse you of "name-calling". We arent in first grade anymore, and the eternal loss or salvation of souls is at stake. Mt:16:11: How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Mt:16:12: Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you." Matthew 24:1-11 "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived" 2Tm:3:13 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" I Timothy 4:1 Now, in unmistakable language, our Lord speaks of His second coming, and He gives warning of dangers to precede His advent to the world. "If any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth: behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many" Matthew 24:1-11. Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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2/17/2007 7:55 pm |
"Name-Calling" This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme. Paul speaks of the excommunication again within his first epistle to Timothy in the very beginning of his letter to his young pupil. This time however I am convinced that it wasn’t necessarily for immorality but for being led astray doctrinally. Paul calls for Timothy’s faithfulness to the doctrines that were passed down to him. He was entrusted with the teachings that shaped the faith of Christianity. Paul not only asked Timothy to “fight the good fight” but this was a direct command and a dire one. Paul directs Timothy to “keep faith and a good conscience” which reflects the previous points from vs. 3 & 7: “As I urged you upon my departure from Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines” “Wanting to be teachers of the law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.” Paul then goes on to name two individuals whom had done the opposite in they had “rejected” this faith and “suffered shipwreck”. These two men, Hymenaeus & Alexander, were “handed over to Satan” by the apostle. If you’ll remember, this is the same terminology found in 1 Cor. 5:5 for the excommunication. Paul ousted these two men from the church in Ephesus personally. We are not certain the details concerning Alexander or which of the four men who are named such in the scriptures is he who suffered the excommunication. Hymenaeus is named in 2 Timothy 2:17 & 18: “And their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.” These men were not teaching sound doctrine and were causing others in the assembly there to stumble. Paul used his authority as an apostle to eject these men from the gathering not necessarily for moral concerns but primarily for the protection of doctrinal purity. Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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2/17/2007 7:55 pm |
I support telling the truth if someone is bringing about the ruining of souls. Jesus warned of the false doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. I should think that to point out a false minister would be much less cruel than allowing them to deceive thousands without making a whimper, for fear someone might accuse you of "name-calling". We arent in first grade anymore, and the eternal loss or salvation of souls is at stake. Mt:16:11: How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Mt:16:12: Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you." Matthew 24:1-11 "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived" 2Tm:3:13 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" I Timothy 4:1 Now, in unmistakable language, our Lord speaks of His second coming, and He gives warning of dangers to precede His advent to the world. "If any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth: behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many" Matthew 24:1-11. Thank you Ed. 
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2/17/2007 8:05 pm |
Hi Edjehu,Do you mean name calling like this...... Matthew 23 1...Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2..."The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3...So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4...They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5..."Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6...they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7...they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.' 8..."But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9...And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10...Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11...The greatest among you will be your servant. 12...For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. 13..."Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! 14...You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 15..."Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 16..."Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17...You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18...You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' 19...You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20...Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21...And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22...And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it. 23..."Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices–mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law–justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24...You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. 25..."Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26...Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. 27..."Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28...In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. 29..."Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30...And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31...So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32...Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers! 33..."You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34...Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35...And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36...I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation. 37..."O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38...Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39...For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.
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2/17/2007 8:12 pm |
you know saul sought david.and that to kill him!david would not dare to pluck one hair from his head.Also when david heard of saul's death he asked a certain man and that certain man said he put saul out of his misery but cutting off his head and david had that man killed for not having fear of doing that to God's anointed....2samuel 1:16..please forgive me brother but people here have no respect or fear of an HOLY GOD that they should speak of people who god anointed.. don't get me wrong,people who are in error should be corrected. but it should be done in GOD's order just like when King David sinned against God by committing adultery and murder.The Lord sent the prophet Nathan and out of david's own mouth he proclaimed his wrong doing..My point?? there is the timing and the anointing of the Lord that is needed for such correction..MHO Choose life,So that both you and your seed may live
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2/17/2007 8:25 pm |
Hi Edjehu,Do you mean name calling like this...... Matthew 23 1...Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2..."The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3...So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4...They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5..."Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6...they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7...they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.' 8..."But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9...And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10...Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11...The greatest among you will be your servant. 12...For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. 13..."Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! 14...You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 15..."Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 16..."Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17...You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18...You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' 19...You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20...Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21...And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22...And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it. 23..."Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices–mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law–justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24...You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. 25..."Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26...Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. 27..."Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28...In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. 29..."Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30...And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31...So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32...Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers! 33..."You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34...Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35...And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36...I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation. 37..."O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38...Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39...For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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2/17/2007 8:39 pm |
Mr Ed!! Hey Jesus called names .. !! (see them refrences above .. all you broods of vipers!! muahahaha ) .. But NEVER did I see Him brow beat ANYONE into submission!! And He certainly never went on the offensive .. ..even though they found Him quite offensive .. !! He did give out alot of hurts donuts .. and still does .. and we always choke on um .. though thankfully He knows how to do the Heimlich maneuver.. !! ... This message has been brought to you by the Justin Case Network .. official sponsor of the Foot in Mouth clubs of America .. with your support we WILL find a cure!
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2/18/2007 1:12 am |
I have read those posts lately and shook my head, not because "truth" was spoken but the manner in which it was. I see very little love in it-- I see downright hatred for it. Each will have to give an account for the words spoken from there mouth. Whether you agree with them on every issue (I don't any person will agree with any pastor on 100% everything) it's the tone and tact in which you speak. Calling someone the names spoken here is breaking the heart of God. Whether you agree or disagree, that preacher is still a child of God, created in His image!!! I have not heard these comments-- I would even wonder where you got all these quotes. I doubt you looked up each taping or speech but rather went on a site that said so and so and copied and pasted it. Did you check it for truth, for bias. Watching u tube as a source is a far cry from unbiased. Post "truth" as you see it-- but keep love as the manner and the intent. Not name calling. Perhaps this could be a measure, if I was sitting down to talk with Jesus would I use those words? If I did choose to use those words what would be the look on Jesus' face. Would He be pleased or broken-hearted.I choose my words carefully, I'm the one who must give account for every one of them. The body of Christ is in enough pain. What is the purpose of many of these posts, tear down or build up. I see very little building up in the way these posts are presented. A post of exposure can build up if it's delivered appropriately. Before you post, think. What does the post do to the heart of God??? Disagree in love!!!!!!
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2/18/2007 4:36 am |
It does matter HOW you go about correcting false doctrine. 2 Timothy 2: 24: And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25: In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26: And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. Yet at the same time there are those who would balk at the correction of false doctrine, no matter how it was presented. Claudia Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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2/18/2007 4:39 am |
Very good points and I agree wholeheartedly. False doctrine should be pointed out! And when I say false doctrine, I am talking about the basic tenets of salvation and not the minor issues we all argue over. However, I do believe this post was intended for one specific blogger who has an agenda much darker than saving souls. It is with that frame of mind I voted No. Thank you Ed. You strike me as a level-headed Guy. I think you have the right idea of things. I dont really understand about the specific blogger with an agenda much darker than saving souls. I am fairly new to the Big Church scene. But anyway I felt that there weren't enough options on the Voting thing so I did not vote. Claudia Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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2/18/2007 4:41 am |
I think edjehu is a good guy though too Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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2/18/2007 5:08 am |
I think edjehu is a good guy though too
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2/18/2007 5:19 am |
Ken (or not) LOL! You strike me as a level-headed Guy. I think you have the right idea of things. I dont really understand about the specific blogger with an agenda much darker than saving souls. I am fairly new to the Big Church scene. But anyway I felt that there weren't enough options on the Voting thing so I did not vote. Claudia  
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2/18/2007 6:04 am |
Ken [or not] well with the bald thing going on there, I guess if you were to put a board on there Im not too sure it would be "level" but then again I just dont know... Of course, I dont know if its the hair thing that makes guys heads level in the first place, so there's that too... to consider in all of this. Claudia Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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2/18/2007 6:27 am |
Great post! GREAT CLARITY! I voted "NO!" God's strength and Grace is Sufficient
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2/18/2007 8:12 am |
Ed ... Words will tell you what kind of spirit does this so called "christians" have. In my own thinking ... arguing, or maybe reasoning out to them will not make any difference at all. They need our prayers ... whether they're doing the right thing or not? ONLY GOD KNOWS ... the HOLY SPIRIT will manifest and REVEAL the TRUTH ... HE will BEAR WITNESS to those who are doing the things that GLORIFIES GOD. It's just so sad that people allowed themselves to be eaten with pride and bitterness. "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh". 2 Timothy 4:2 instructs us, "Preach the Word ; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage – with great patience and careful instruction." Definitely ... I would vote for NO! faith
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2/18/2007 8:49 am |
edjehu, I admire you actually for caring about this, it is really important. One reason it is important is because lets say there IS a minister who is teaching fasle doctrine, the kind that can cause people to be lost... like here's an example: 2 Corinthians 11: 13: For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. If someone here presents a case against such a minister and then they use sarcastic, mean tones in their presentation, MANY would be led to think that what they are saying has no real merit, because after all, if it DID (they would reason within themselves) then surely they wouldnt be so mean-spirited about this! Then they'd be led to conclude and even have it cemented in their minds that this minister who is teaching false doctrine must be teaching TRUE doctrine! Satan can be VERY VERY tricky! People do tend to root for the underdog. But any way, edjehu, did you go to this Brother or Sister alone and try talking with them about it to reason with them? I know I forget to do that sometimes... you know, like the Matthew 18 thing... DONT answer me because I dont want to make it look bad on you if you didnt, thats not my motive. Remember the Disciples when they did this? Lk:9: 51: And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, 52: And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. 53: And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. 54: And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 55: But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. 56: For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village. They really were off the mark when it came to how they treated other people, yet they had the right attitude when it came to getting upset at people who rejected Jesus though. Im just saying that we just dont know whats in a persons heart, you know? Just as nobody here knows what is in yours. I guess Im just trying to be kind of a "peacemaker". Not very good at it but Im trying Claudia Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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2/18/2007 8:50 am |
I dont even know why Im even getting involved in this... I usually end up getting run over by both sides LOL! I think Im going to go do something else now.. Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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2/18/2007 2:30 pm |
edjehu, I havent yet read your complete post to me but I noticed you said something about this person being my friend, I am not even sure who this person is and so they arent any friend of mine! Honest! LOL! could somebody just emails me and let me know who it is you all are referring to? Now you really got me curious because I think I have seen 3 people so far that are saying things about people like Benny Hinn and stuff that that.. is that the kind of posts you are talking about? and if so, could someone just message me privately and let me know who you are talking about on here? Claudia Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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2/18/2007 2:32 pm |
wait, I just was going back to click your profile, edjehu and I saw that green post so I guess I think I know who you are talking about, but he isnt any friend of mine, I dont know him one way or the other. Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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2/18/2007 2:51 pm |
edjehu, I am not completely certain whats going on here and totally sure who you are talking about. I think I know but not for sure. I also am not sure who he/she is badmouthing... but one thing I am trying to say is that SOMETIMES... someone can hurt your salvation... look at these two Bible verses: Mt:23:15: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. What danger attends false teaching? "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some." 2 Timothy 2:18. Claudia Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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2/18/2007 2:53 pm |
did you take note it say the false teaching overthrew the faith of some? What danger attends false teaching? "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some." 2 Timothy 2:18. Ti:2:14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
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