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 | Blogs > reallysaved > From Where I Sit > Speaking the Truth in Love. |
Speaking the Truth in Love.
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The Word tells us to speak the Truth in love. Sometimes that means saying hard things. Dr. James Dobson says in his book, a Christian classic, Love Must Be Tough, that sometimes loving someone is telling them something that they don't want to hear. Loving someone is not saying something to them because that is what they want to hear. It is telling them the truth. In love, to me, means that you say whatever you have to say, even the hard things, with compassion, understanding and humility. I have heard many people here at Big Church say or imply that we should not ever say anything negative to another person. I say that is a bunch of baloney! Loving people means sometimes saying things that they don't want to hear. I personally have had people say negative things to me that I really needed to hear. If they hadn't had the strength to tell me, I would not have changed some very bad behaviors or I would have gone down a very bad path in my life. Jesus said some very negative things to people in the Word as did Paul. The things they said were said in love, though. They were meant to build up and better someone, not tear down or destroy them. I think there is a very dangerous teaching in the church now-a-days. It says that we should be tolerant of everyone no matter what their lifestyle, what they say or what they do. This is a scheme of Satan, and it pains me to see good Christian people buying into this false teaching. If something does not line up with the Bible, we are to reject it. We are to warn the person doing or saying the wrong, not because we are better than they are but because we love them. Tolerance is what will allow the Antichrist to take over the world. It has already allowed New Age and Cult teachings to enter into the church. If we don't adhere to what the Bible says, we will be deceived. It is that simple. I pray that no one here at Big Church allows that to happen to them. |
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6/11/2006 1:11 am |
So true  No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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6/11/2006 4:57 am |
YOU ARE SO RIGHT JEAN.I THINK IT IS ALL IN THE WAY IT IS SAID.WITH LOVE AND COMPASSION.I DON'T THINK ENOUGH PREACHERS PREACH ON WHERE YOU'RE GOING AFTER THIS LIFE IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT JESUS.IT REMINDS ME OF THE RICH MAN THAT WOULDN'T LET THE POOR MAN EAT THE CRUMBS THAT DROPPED FROM HIS TABLE.THE RICH MAN DIED AND WENT TO HELL.HE BEGGED TO COME BACK SO HE COULD TELL HIS BROTHERS NOT TO COME THERE.IT WAS TOO LATE THEN.SO MANY PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THAT THE OPPOSITE OF HEAVEN IS...HELL.GOD BLESS YOU IN YOUR NEW MARRIAGE.JUDY
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6/11/2006 5:55 am |
This is a very good word. Why all the sarcasm? I thought this is supposed to be a christian site? Reallysaved I want to say that I concur with your message.
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 6/11/2006 6:11 am |
Jean I agree with you a 100% with what you have written here.. when we as Christians see another Christian or non-Christian teaching false teachings/sin.. in the church or anywhere else for that matter, WE SHOULD AND BETTER SPEAK OUT AGAINST IT!... But that does not mean we should personally attack, bash, name calling, etc... Is that the way a Christian should treat another brother or sister in the Lord.. and even if you believe there not a Christian is that the way to win them or there followers over to Christ...NO! its not! Jean WE as Christians need to speak the TRUTH in LOVE.. I believe that this is the example that Jesus gave us... He did speak harsh to the Pharisees.. but even there didn't He speak to them as a whole and not childish name calling?.. I have spoke out against BeastMster on the way he hurts and belittles the ones he don't agree with, only after I have tried to reason with him through personal email.. and he has chosen to continue in his name calling, and personal bashing.. you saw an example of this on one of your post that he personaly attack me, and you deleted our comments... witch was the right thing to do.. What is so sad about this Jean is that I believe that I could agree and be taught a lot with what BeastMaster writes, but it is so hard to look past his personal bashing of other brothers and sister in Christ.. His passion is to fight against New Age and how it has sneak its way into many church's.. then I say teach it in love, don't beat us up!... NO ONE listens to a bully even if he's Right!... Banana and toothbrushes... Oh no not again... lol Life is too short so Lighten Up a bit...
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6/11/2006 7:20 am |
Jesus continually confronted the Pharisees. He is our example and we must be bold. CL
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6/11/2006 8:42 am |
well the thing is though and i know that i am more then likely wasting my time writeing this. because it will probly be deleted. but i agree with realy saved 100%.but the thing is forlks in this age we live in people are getting much thicker skin and its getting harder and harder to get though to them.so god has to use many different poeple with many different stlyes to get his word though.and when we delete comments just because we do not like or do not agree with them. especialy when we know realy nothing or very little about that person.who is writeing them.then we just might be.limiting the work of holy sperit.i am not god and i realy do not think any one else out there realy is either.NOW AS FOR YOU WHITE PANTYS. AND HERE COMES ONE OF THOSE HARD THINGS TO SAY , LIKE REALY SAVED WAS TALKING ABOUT. BUT YOU NREALY NEED TO CHANGE YOUR HANDLE IF YOU CLAIM TO BE A CHRISTAN.AND IF I UNDERSTOOD YOUR SECOND RESPONCE RIGHT, AND IF YOU MENT THAT YOUR PIC IS OF YOU IN PANTYS. THEN YOU NEED TO LEAVE THIS SITE AND EITHER GET SAVED OR GET RIGHT WITH GOD.and realysaved if you do delete this post then you need to get into a bible dictionary and look up the word hypocrit.but i think your a good christan woman and you wont.
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6/11/2006 1:43 pm |
You are right Jean. But it is hard to make 'feelings' show via the internet and it is easy to be misunderstood. What we mean to say in love more often than not comes out sounding harsh and judgmental. I have been misunderstood and accused of being judgmental and I know you and others have too. How do we find a 'happy' medium here?  Elizabeth
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6/11/2006 4:47 pm |
actually it is true but harshness is a needed tool as well: What is ‘love’ in the Bible (Agape) and How Did It Work? We tend to assume at once that "love" means what it does to us in modern times -- in this case, a mushy sentimentality that never says a harsh word and never steps on the toes of others. but conceptually, it is certainly possible to love one's enemies, and yet also attack them; and the same for one's disciples or allies What exactly is agape, or "love" as it is translated? The NT tells us: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. We read such passages and tend to assume at once that "love" means what it does to us in modern times -- in this case, a mushy sentimentality that never says a harsh word and never steps on the toes of others. The same word is used in 1 Cor. 13 (though translated differently)  harity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.The question at issue: how is all of this actually worked out in practice? Does agape mean not confronting others with error or sin? Do we need a deep relationship (a "25 ton bridge" as one friend calls it) to relate to a person and to correct them? On the surface this is an obvious no-brainer, since of course the writers of the NT were constantly confronting others on various errors, even people they obviously could not have known well (even if we assume, wrongly, that they related on modern, individualist terms!). It takes a "politically correct" stretch to argue otherwise. But there is a more moderate view: We can confront, but can only do so politely. Well, that too is a no-brainer on the surface, given the many abrasive comments given by Jesus and by Paul to their opponents (i.e., Pharisees, the Galatian "Judaizers") and even to fellow believers (like Peter and the "Satan" quote) who went awry. Indeed, rhetorical analysis of Paul's letters indicates that he used some very sharp rhetorical tactics which would have seriously shamed his opponents and even his readers. The answer is found in one of two places: 1) The NT teaches but does not act out agape; 2) We are not really understanding what agape means. And as it happens, the social science data tells us that #2 is the way to go. In the following we will draw in some points that some readers may recognize from previous essays here on tektonics.org; but there is also some new material added. A key difference in understanding the meaning of agape is to recognize that our culture is centered on the individual, whereas ancient Biblical society (and 70% of societies today) are group-centered. What is good for the group is what is paramount. Hence when the NT speaks of agape it refers to the "value of group attachment and group bonding" [Malina and Neyrey, Portraits of Paul, 196]. Agape is not an exchange on a personal level and "will have little to do with feelings of affection, sentiments of fondness, and warm, glowing affinity." It is a gift that puts the group first.With that in mind, what of the passage which tells us to "Love your enemies"? How is this reconciled with places where Jesus calls the Pharisees names, or Peter "Satan"? How is it reconciled with where Paul wishes emasculation on his Galatian opponents (Gal. 5) and shames the Galatians with his rhetoric? How is it reconciled with even confronting others with sin and error, for that matter? Given the definition of "group attachment" above, it may be best to understand agape as a parallel to another known concept of today -- not love, but tough love. For the sake of popular culture awareness I will allude to perhaps the most famous example of such "tough love" known today -- the New Jersey high school principal Joe Clark (whose story was told in the movie Lean on Me) who cleaned out his high school and made it a safe place for those who wanted to learn. Clark was no soft sentimentalist! He kicked those out of school who disrupted the learning of others. He used physical compulsion to do it as needed. He used a bullhorn to get people's attention. Is this agape? Yes, it is! It is the Biblical form of agape in which Clark valued what was best for his students as a whole versus what the individual wanted. Now consider this understanding in light of, for example, Jesus' confrontation with the Pharisees and others. It will take a complexity of emotion we find foreign, but conceptually, it is certainly possible to love one's enemies, and yet also attack them; and the same for one's disciples or allies. Like Clark's disruptive students, the Pharisees were a threat to the well-being of others; so likewise Peter when he made his error. They spread deception and falsehood and kept others from entering the Kingdom of God with their deceptions; or else led people down the wrong path and away from spiritual maturity. In such a scenario, not only is it right and proper, for the sake of agape, to confront and confront boldly; it may be the only responsible thing to do to keep the "disease" or error from spreading and afflicting more souls! (In the ancient world, and even today, insults and polemics were a way to shame and discredit an opponent (Emphasis Added) So agape does include verbally attacking and discrediting one's opponents, or confronting other believers, when they are in the wrong. Jesus speaks to these men not as his enemies, but as enemies of the truth. There is no indication that he speaks to them as personal enemies, for all of his comments reflect their deception of others; the personal relationship between the parties does not even come into the picture. They were enemies for the sake of the Kingdom of God. By comparison, one would hardly suppose that Matthew 5:44 would restrict one from joining an army and fighting in a war against a Hitler or a Stalin. This becomes a case of having agape for the greater number, and generally innocent, at the expense of the lesser who are guilty. Jesus' situation with the Pharisees and others attacked was very much in this category, since their actions imperiled the eternal fate or the spiritual maturity of others. One may reply, "But what then of the example of the Good Samaritan? He was kind to an enemy." He was kind to a personal enemy; the man was not spreading lies and deceiving others! Here is food for thought: If Jesus had been attacking a Pharisee, and the man had suddenly clutched at his heart and dropped to the ground, would agape have us give the Pharisee CPR? Yes, it would. We are thereby making the man our "neighbor" and extending the hand of welcome into our fellowship. From there what happens? The Pharisee may keep on his attacks against the truth after he recovers; if so, he is still an enemy for the sake of the Gospel and one to be publicly addressed in disparaging terms. But if he drops to the ground again we will still work to save him. Our modern society has lost this ability to distinguish between sin and sinner; it is often assumed that to attack the position is to attack the man! Such is the bane of "tolerance" and political correctness.
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6/11/2006 5:02 pm |
I absolutely agree with Elizabeth (Rebekka). Jean, you are 100% correct in that we are to speak the truth in love, and sometimes things need to be said to people who don't want to hear them. Now...refering to that last sentence, I started to write it like this, "...sometimes we need to say things to people who don't want to hear them." Notice how I re-phrased it. Here's the thing I'd like to offer to ANYONE on BC (and I try to follow this myself): Check YOUR motives! Are YOU trying to be Holy Ghost, Jr.? Are YOU trying to do things out of passion, zealousness for the Word/Truth, out of a gifting or calling whereby you are often "in someone's face?" Do YOU feel a kind of compunction to SET EVERYONE STRAIGHT...and then proceed to attempt to do so, sometimes out of a reaction rather than a true prompting of the Lord? Keep in mind the first sentence I made that here on BC it is incredibly difficult to convey things like softness, true humility, gentleness, and kindness and LOVE. I think ANYTIME someone needs "correcting" whoever feels the need to correct them should first step back, pray and make sure they aren't voicing things out of their own soul. There's also the issue of timing. If you feel compelled to "straighten someone out" I have to ask: have you even prayed for that person to be prepared to HEAR you? Have you asked the Lord for His wisdom and truly committed yourself and the situation to Him, trusting HIM to handle it...maybe through someone other than yourself--someone that perhaps could say things to that individual in a voice-tone or in a way that they would actually hear rather than blow off? If you can't say yes to all of the above, then...hmmm...can you honestly say you are then speaking the truth in love? I'm not here to judge or condemn anyone, but I'd like to publicly say that I'm very disappointed in a lot of the dialogue that is taking place here on BC. James 3:17-18 (in the Amplified) says, "But the wisdom from above is first of all pure; then it is peace-loving, courteous (considerate, gentle). It is willing to yield to reason, full of compassion and good fruits; it is wholehearted and straightforward...and the harvest of righteousness is the fruit of the seed sown in peace by those who work for and make peace in themselves and in others, that is, that peace which means concord (agreement, harmony) between individuals, with undistrubedness, in a peaceful mind..." Elizabeth, you asked how we find a happy medium here? I doubt we'll be able to, honestly, as long as people have a flesh, and, unfortunately, we all have one of those! (grin) But what I pray all of us will do is make sure we are allowing the LORD to do the correcting and it's not our personal agenda. Then, if we DO feel it is of the Lord to speak the truth into a situation, that at the very least, we lay hold of the scripture I just shared and make sure our motives are pure, we are at peace in ourselves, AND we are attempting to bring peace into the situation, as well. I mean...if you really feel the other person won't "hear" you, then I have to ask, why bother saying it in the first place? Just my thoughts.
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6/11/2006 5:36 pm |
That is interesting Worshiping one. Between what you just stated and what Beastmstr said there probably is alot of truth. You speak of motive and I have often questioned that when I witnessed it at work in my church. However the point in Beastmstr's reply that speaks about the good of the whole group over the good of one person also makes sense as well. Sometimes we are too harsh and sometimes we are too soft. It certainly is alot to think about. Jesus and Paul definately were very harsh at times. I think that part of it is what makes so many people uncomfortable. It is just not easy dealing with false teaching in the midst of groups.
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6/11/2006 6:45 pm |
I don't know if this makes any difference or not, but for whatever it's worth, when I wrote what I did above, BeastMaster's comment had not yet been "published". In other words, it looks like I posted my comment AFTER him, but in reality, we must have added our respective comments at almost exactly the same time and his happened to "post" ahead of me. I guess I just keep thinking, "Is all this actually accomplishing anything...or is it just stiring up strife, discord, and contention?" Always..there's a time and a place...and I just question if this is THE PLACE, you know? (smile) Peace to you, Jean, BeastMaster, and everyone who reads this.
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6/11/2006 7:12 pm |
worshippingone my motives for the things i write are simpley this.for years and years now we as god fearing christans have spread the good news of god with a kind smile or a soft shoulder and more and more poeple are dieing and going to hell never finding god.what i am trying to do is shake things up a bit make poeple think.some times poeple just wont hear a wisper so you got to shout a little. i do what i do with the full knoledge that god is my judge.but if i can get though to one person just one. then praise god.
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6/11/2006 7:19 pm |
So true
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6/11/2006 7:21 pm |
YOU ARE SO RIGHT JEAN.I THINK IT IS ALL IN THE WAY IT IS SAID.WITH LOVE AND COMPASSION.I DON'T THINK ENOUGH PREACHERS PREACH ON WHERE YOU'RE GOING AFTER THIS LIFE IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT JESUS.IT REMINDS ME OF THE RICH MAN THAT WOULDN'T LET THE POOR MAN EAT THE CRUMBS THAT DROPPED FROM HIS TABLE.THE RICH MAN DIED AND WENT TO HELL.HE BEGGED TO COME BACK SO HE COULD TELL HIS BROTHERS NOT TO COME THERE.IT WAS TOO LATE THEN.SO MANY PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THAT THE OPPOSITE OF HEAVEN IS...HELL.GOD BLESS YOU IN YOUR NEW MARRIAGE.JUDY
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6/11/2006 7:21 pm |
This is a very good word. Why all the sarcasm? I thought this is supposed to be a christian site? Reallysaved I want to say that I concur with your message.
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6/11/2006 7:25 pm |
Jean I agree with you a 100% with what you have written here.. when we as Christians see another Christian or non-Christian teaching false teachings/sin.. in the church or anywhere else for that matter, WE SHOULD AND BETTER SPEAK OUT AGAINST IT!... But that does not mean we should personally attack, bash, name calling, etc... Is that the way a Christian should treat another brother or sister in the Lord.. and even if you believe there not a Christian is that the way to win them or there followers over to Christ...NO! its not! Jean WE as Christians need to speak the TRUTH in LOVE.. I believe that this is the example that Jesus gave us... He did speak harsh to the Pharisees.. but even there didn't He speak to them as a whole and not childish name calling?.. I have spoke out against BeastMster on the way he hurts and belittles the ones he don't agree with, only after I have tried to reason with him through personal email.. and he has chosen to continue in his name calling, and personal bashing.. you saw an example of this on one of your post that he personaly attack me, and you deleted our comments... witch was the right thing to do.. What is so sad about this Jean is that I believe that I could agree and be taught a lot with what BeastMaster writes, but it is so hard to look past his personal bashing of other brothers and sister in Christ.. His passion is to fight against New Age and how it has sneak its way into many church's.. then I say teach it in love, don't beat us up!... NO ONE listens to a bully even if he's Right!...
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6/11/2006 7:26 pm |
Jesus continually confronted the Pharisees. He is our example and we must be bold. CL
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6/11/2006 7:32 pm |
actually it is true but harshness is a needed tool as well: What is ‘love’ in the Bible (Agape) and How Did It Work? We tend to assume at once that "love" means what it does to us in modern times -- in this case, a mushy sentimentality that never says a harsh word and never steps on the toes of others. but conceptually, it is certainly possible to love one's enemies, and yet also attack them; and the same for one's disciples or allies What exactly is agape, or "love" as it is translated? The NT tells us: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. We read such passages and tend to assume at once that "love" means what it does to us in modern times -- in this case, a mushy sentimentality that never says a harsh word and never steps on the toes of others. The same word is used in 1 Cor. 13 (though translated differently) harity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.The question at issue: how is all of this actually worked out in practice? Does agape mean not confronting others with error or sin? Do we need a deep relationship (a "25 ton bridge" as one friend calls it) to relate to a person and to correct them? On the surface this is an obvious no-brainer, since of course the writers of the NT were constantly confronting others on various errors, even people they obviously could not have known well (even if we assume, wrongly, that they related on modern, individualist terms!). It takes a "politically correct" stretch to argue otherwise. But there is a more moderate view: We can confront, but can only do so politely. Well, that too is a no-brainer on the surface, given the many abrasive comments given by Jesus and by Paul to their opponents (i.e., Pharisees, the Galatian "Judaizers") and even to fellow believers (like Peter and the "Satan" quote) who went awry. Indeed, rhetorical analysis of Paul's letters indicates that he used some very sharp rhetorical tactics which would have seriously shamed his opponents and even his readers. The answer is found in one of two places: 1) The NT teaches but does not act out agape; 2) We are not really understanding what agape means. And as it happens, the social science data tells us that #2 is the way to go. In the following we will draw in some points that some readers may recognize from previous essays here on tektonics.org; but there is also some new material added. A key difference in understanding the meaning of agape is to recognize that our culture is centered on the individual, whereas ancient Biblical society (and 70% of societies today) are group-centered. What is good for the group is what is paramount. Hence when the NT speaks of agape it refers to the "value of group attachment and group bonding" [Malina and Neyrey, Portraits of Paul, 196]. Agape is not an exchange on a personal level and "will have little to do with feelings of affection, sentiments of fondness, and warm, glowing affinity." It is a gift that puts the group first.With that in mind, what of the passage which tells us to "Love your enemies"? How is this reconciled with places where Jesus calls the Pharisees names, or Peter "Satan"? How is it reconciled with where Paul wishes emasculation on his Galatian opponents (Gal. 5) and shames the Galatians with his rhetoric? How is it reconciled with even confronting others with sin and error, for that matter? Given the definition of "group attachment" above, it may be best to understand agape as a parallel to another known concept of today -- not love, but tough love. For the sake of popular culture awareness I will allude to perhaps the most famous example of such "tough love" known today -- the New Jersey high school principal Joe Clark (whose story was told in the movie Lean on Me) who cleaned out his high school and made it a safe place for those who wanted to learn. Clark was no soft sentimentalist! He kicked those out of school who disrupted the learning of others. He used physical compulsion to do it as needed. He used a bullhorn to get people's attention. Is this agape? Yes, it is! It is the Biblical form of agape in which Clark valued what was best for his students as a whole versus what the individual wanted. Now consider this understanding in light of, for example, Jesus' confrontation with the Pharisees and others. It will take a complexity of emotion we find foreign, but conceptually, it is certainly possible to love one's enemies, and yet also attack them; and the same for one's disciples or allies. Like Clark's disruptive students, the Pharisees were a threat to the well-being of others; so likewise Peter when he made his error. They spread deception and falsehood and kept others from entering the Kingdom of God with their deceptions; or else led people down the wrong path and away from spiritual maturity. In such a scenario, not only is it right and proper, for the sake of agape, to confront and confront boldly; it may be the only responsible thing to do to keep the "disease" or error from spreading and afflicting more souls! (In the ancient world, and even today, insults and polemics were a way to shame and discredit an opponent (Emphasis Added) So agape does include verbally attacking and discrediting one's opponents, or confronting other believers, when they are in the wrong. Jesus speaks to these men not as his enemies, but as enemies of the truth. There is no indication that he speaks to them as personal enemies, for all of his comments reflect their deception of others; the personal relationship between the parties does not even come into the picture. They were enemies for the sake of the Kingdom of God. By comparison, one would hardly suppose that Matthew 5:44 would restrict one from joining an army and fighting in a war against a Hitler or a Stalin. This becomes a case of having agape for the greater number, and generally innocent, at the expense of the lesser who are guilty. Jesus' situation with the Pharisees and others attacked was very much in this category, since their actions imperiled the eternal fate or the spiritual maturity of others. One may reply, "But what then of the example of the Good Samaritan? He was kind to an enemy." He was kind to a personal enemy; the man was not spreading lies and deceiving others! Here is food for thought: If Jesus had been attacking a Pharisee, and the man had suddenly clutched at his heart and dropped to the ground, would agape have us give the Pharisee CPR? Yes, it would. We are thereby making the man our "neighbor" and extending the hand of welcome into our fellowship. From there what happens? The Pharisee may keep on his attacks against the truth after he recovers; if so, he is still an enemy for the sake of the Gospel and one to be publicly addressed in disparaging terms. But if he drops to the ground again we will still work to save him. Our modern society has lost this ability to distinguish between sin and sinner; it is often assumed that to attack the position is to attack the man! Such is the bane of "tolerance" and political correctness. Beastmster, I don't see you loving other people. You can say all that you have to say and still say it in a humble, loving way. I just see you being angry. That is not God's will. We as Christians should be known for our love. A person should never go away from an encounter with us feeling beat up or hurt. If they do, then we have not done it right, and we need to fix it! I see you spewing poison out here at Big Church and not being accountable for what you say or do to others. That is wrong. Very wrong! I will continue to pray for you. Be blessed!
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6/11/2006 7:33 pm |
well the thing is though and i know that i am more then likely wasting my time writeing this. because it will probly be deleted. but i agree with realy saved 100%.but the thing is forlks in this age we live in people are getting much thicker skin and its getting harder and harder to get though to them.so god has to use many different poeple with many different stlyes to get his word though.and when we delete comments just because we do not like or do not agree with them. especialy when we know realy nothing or very little about that person.who is writeing them.then we just might be.limiting the work of holy sperit.i am not god and i realy do not think any one else out there realy is either.NOW AS FOR YOU WHITE PANTYS. AND HERE COMES ONE OF THOSE HARD THINGS TO SAY , LIKE REALY SAVED WAS TALKING ABOUT. BUT YOU NREALY NEED TO CHANGE YOUR HANDLE IF YOU CLAIM TO BE A CHRISTAN.AND IF I UNDERSTOOD YOUR SECOND RESPONCE RIGHT, AND IF YOU MENT THAT YOUR PIC IS OF YOU IN PANTYS. THEN YOU NEED TO LEAVE THIS SITE AND EITHER GET SAVED OR GET RIGHT WITH GOD.and realysaved if you do delete this post then you need to get into a bible dictionary and look up the word hypocrit.but i think your a good christan woman and you wont.
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6/11/2006 7:50 pm |
You are right Jean. But it is hard to make 'feelings' show via the internet and it is easy to be misunderstood. What we mean to say in love more often than not comes out sounding harsh and judgmental. I have been misunderstood and accused of being judgmental and I know you and others have too. How do we find a 'happy' medium here?
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6/11/2006 7:52 pm |
I absolutely agree with Elizabeth (Rebekka). Jean, you are 100% correct in that we are to speak the truth in love, and sometimes things need to be said to people who don't want to hear them. Now...refering to that last sentence, I started to write it like this, "...sometimes we need to say things to people who don't want to hear them." Notice how I re-phrased it. Here's the thing I'd like to offer to ANYONE on BC (and I try to follow this myself): Check YOUR motives! Are YOU trying to be Holy Ghost, Jr.? Are YOU trying to do things out of passion, zealousness for the Word/Truth, out of a gifting or calling whereby you are often "in someone's face?" Do YOU feel a kind of compunction to SET EVERYONE STRAIGHT...and then proceed to attempt to do so, sometimes out of a reaction rather than a true prompting of the Lord? Keep in mind the first sentence I made that here on BC it is incredibly difficult to convey things like softness, true humility, gentleness, and kindness and LOVE. I think ANYTIME someone needs "correcting" whoever feels the need to correct them should first step back, pray and make sure they aren't voicing things out of their own soul. There's also the issue of timing. If you feel compelled to "straighten someone out" I have to ask: have you even prayed for that person to be prepared to HEAR you? Have you asked the Lord for His wisdom and truly committed yourself and the situation to Him, trusting HIM to handle it...maybe through someone other than yourself--someone that perhaps could say things to that individual in a voice-tone or in a way that they would actually hear rather than blow off? If you can't say yes to all of the above, then...hmmm...can you honestly say you are then speaking the truth in love? I'm not here to judge or condemn anyone, but I'd like to publicly say that I'm very disappointed in a lot of the dialogue that is taking place here on BC. James 3:17-18 (in the Amplified) says, "But the wisdom from above is first of all pure; then it is peace-loving, courteous (considerate, gentle). It is willing to yield to reason, full of compassion and good fruits; it is wholehearted and straightforward...and the harvest of righteousness is the fruit of the seed sown in peace by those who work for and make peace in themselves and in others, that is, that peace which means concord (agreement, harmony) between individuals, with undistrubedness, in a peaceful mind..." Elizabeth, you asked how we find a happy medium here? I doubt we'll be able to, honestly, as long as people have a flesh, and, unfortunately, we all have one of those! (grin) But what I pray all of us will do is make sure we are allowing the LORD to do the correcting and it's not our personal agenda. Then, if we DO feel it is of the Lord to speak the truth into a situation, that at the very least, we lay hold of the scripture I just shared and make sure our motives are pure, we are at peace in ourselves, AND we are attempting to bring peace into the situation, as well. I mean...if you really feel the other person won't "hear" you, then I have to ask, why bother saying it in the first place? Just my thoughts.
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6/12/2006 5:18 am |
I remember just a couple months ago when you disagreed with me on this! My how you have came to my side on this topic now! Must be the married life! LOL!
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6/12/2006 9:24 am |
YOU KNOW JEAN,CHRISTIANS ARE TO DRAW OTHERS TO GOD,NOT AWAY FROM GOD.AFTER MY DIVORCE,I GOT OUT OF GOD'S WILL.I PARTIED AND DRINKED AND WENT TO ALL THE CLUBS.BUT,I CAME BACK TO GOD AND HE FORGAVE ME.I NEVER WENT TO ANOTHER CLUB,NEVER DRINKED.I WAS GOD'S CHILD.BUT MY SIBBLINGS [who were christians and in church every time the doors were opened] SHUNNED ME FOR ELEVEN YEARS.THEY WOULD NOT LET ME LIVED DOWN THAT ONE YEAR.OH, HOW I NEEDED THEIR LOVE AND SUPPORT.BUT,I SAT BACK AND WATCHED GOD CHANGE THEIR LIVES.HE BROUGHT EACH FAMILY MEMBER DOWN OFF THEIR PEDESTALS AND HUMBLED THEM. THEY HAD TO PAY GREATLY FOR THEIR UNFORGIVENESS.TODAY WE ARE CLOSE AND SHARE BIBLE STUDIES TOGETHER.HOW CAN CHRISTIANS BE IN CHURCH AND HEAR THE WORD AND NOT BE ABLE TO SHOW LOVE AND FORGIVENESS.I AM SO FULL OF GODS LOVE.YOU CAN [like beastmaster] YELL AND SCREAM THE WORD OF GOD,BUT IF NO LOVE OR COMPASSION IS SHOWN...IT GOES RIGHT OVER MY HEAD.FOR WHEN I GO TO MY FATHER,THAT IS THE FIRST THING I FEEL....LOVE. GOD BLESS,JUDY
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6/12/2006 11:45 am |
YOU KNOW JEAN,CHRISTIANS ARE TO DRAW OTHERS TO GOD,NOT AWAY FROM GOD.AFTER MY DIVORCE,I GOT OUT OF GOD'S WILL.I PARTIED AND DRINKED AND WENT TO ALL THE CLUBS.BUT,I CAME BACK TO GOD AND HE FORGAVE ME.I NEVER WENT TO ANOTHER CLUB,NEVER DRINKED.I WAS GOD'S CHILD.BUT MY SIBBLINGS [who were christians and in church every time the doors were opened] SHUNNED ME FOR ELEVEN YEARS.THEY WOULD NOT LET ME LIVED DOWN THAT ONE YEAR.OH, HOW I NEEDED THEIR LOVE AND SUPPORT.BUT,I SAT BACK AND WATCHED GOD CHANGE THEIR LIVES.HE BROUGHT EACH FAMILY MEMBER DOWN OFF THEIR PEDESTALS AND HUMBLED THEM. THEY HAD TO PAY GREATLY FOR THEIR UNFORGIVENESS.TODAY WE ARE CLOSE AND SHARE BIBLE STUDIES TOGETHER.HOW CAN CHRISTIANS BE IN CHURCH AND HEAR THE WORD AND NOT BE ABLE TO SHOW LOVE AND FORGIVENESS.I AM SO FULL OF GODS LOVE.YOU CAN [like beastmaster] YELL AND SCREAM THE WORD OF GOD,BUT IF NO LOVE OR COMPASSION IS SHOWN...IT GOES RIGHT OVER MY HEAD.FOR WHEN I GO TO MY FATHER,THAT IS THE FIRST THING I FEEL....LOVE. GOD BLESS,JUDY Love is not always gentle. For example, some of the love I knew from my earthly father was when he spanked me. That is loving compassion. Bryan
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6/12/2006 12:06 pm |
It is such a blessing that God gives us that we can speak our mind. It is not only a right but our duty as Christians to speak the truth in Love. As I understand it, and I freely admit I am new to the studes, Jesus taught that we should Love our enemies. So though we may speak the truth, though we may pray for the Lord to lift them from their plight, does that require us to turn our back to them? Is being intolerant of certain ways, ideas and philosphies require that we become intolerant of the people themselves? How then can Christians become witness to the greatness of Christ's Love? Perhaps slightly off the center of your topic, but the subject matter just provoked some thought. As for hearing the truth, in the "real" world, one of my closest, dearest friends, is so because she always tells me as it is. Whether I want to hear it or not. I love her for that. I need her for that. We all need that!
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6/12/2006 2:55 pm |
I remember just a couple months ago when you disagreed with me on this! My how you have came to my side on this topic now! Must be the married life! LOL!
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6/12/2006 3:05 pm |
YOU KNOW JEAN,CHRISTIANS ARE TO DRAW OTHERS TO GOD,NOT AWAY FROM GOD.AFTER MY DIVORCE,I GOT OUT OF GOD'S WILL.I PARTIED AND DRINKED AND WENT TO ALL THE CLUBS.BUT,I CAME BACK TO GOD AND HE FORGAVE ME.I NEVER WENT TO ANOTHER CLUB,NEVER DRINKED.I WAS GOD'S CHILD.BUT MY SIBBLINGS [who were christians and in church every time the doors were opened] SHUNNED ME FOR ELEVEN YEARS.THEY WOULD NOT LET ME LIVED DOWN THAT ONE YEAR.OH, HOW I NEEDED THEIR LOVE AND SUPPORT.BUT,I SAT BACK AND WATCHED GOD CHANGE THEIR LIVES.HE BROUGHT EACH FAMILY MEMBER DOWN OFF THEIR PEDESTALS AND HUMBLED THEM. THEY HAD TO PAY GREATLY FOR THEIR UNFORGIVENESS.TODAY WE ARE CLOSE AND SHARE BIBLE STUDIES TOGETHER.HOW CAN CHRISTIANS BE IN CHURCH AND HEAR THE WORD AND NOT BE ABLE TO SHOW LOVE AND FORGIVENESS.I AM SO FULL OF GODS LOVE.YOU CAN [like beastmaster] YELL AND SCREAM THE WORD OF GOD,BUT IF NO LOVE OR COMPASSION IS SHOWN...IT GOES RIGHT OVER MY HEAD.FOR WHEN I GO TO MY FATHER,THAT IS THE FIRST THING I FEEL....LOVE. GOD BLESS,JUDY For instance, when you backslid, you did not need anyone to tell you that you were doing something wrong. You already knew that. God would not have sent anyone to you to tell you that you were doing wrong. So, if someone did that, they were operating in their flesh, not in the Spirit. What you needed was someone to come beside you and just tell you that they loved you. That is what I had done if I had been your sister. Don't put me in the same category as your siblings, okay? I am talking about people who are spreading false teachings or who are attacking other people. Those are the kinds of behaviors I am talking about addressing. Perhaps I did not make myself clear. Sorry. I hope I have explained myself more clearly now. Be blessed!
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6/12/2006 3:18 pm |
It is such a blessing that God gives us that we can speak our mind. It is not only a right but our duty as Christians to speak the truth in Love. As I understand it, and I freely admit I am new to the studes, Jesus taught that we should Love our enemies. So though we may speak the truth, though we may pray for the Lord to lift them from their plight, does that require us to turn our back to them? Is being intolerant of certain ways, ideas and philosphies require that we become intolerant of the people themselves? How then can Christians become witness to the greatness of Christ's Love? Perhaps slightly off the center of your topic, but the subject matter just provoked some thought. As for hearing the truth, in the "real" world, one of my closest, dearest friends, is so because she always tells me as it is. Whether I want to hear it or not. I love her for that. I need her for that. We all need that! I am not even saying that I am to say something every time I see someone doing something wrong or teaching something wrong. Far from it! Most of the time, the Lord just has me pray for the person. There are times, though, when He does ask me to say something. When He does, I try to say whatever He asks me to in the most loving way I can. I know how it feels for someone to tell me I am doing or saying something wrong, so I try to be as gentle as I can. Thanks for stopping by and for your comments! Be blessed!
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6/12/2006 5:55 pm |
Sometimes we can get so focused on a danger that we don't see Satan attacking us and get blindsided by a judgemental spirit, anger, or hatred. I had a pastor for many years who got so involved in a political battle, that he didn't see the different sins seeping into his church. He was too focused, actually frozen on a purpose that he was blinded to the real danger. He no longer pastors, and it is a shame. That is why we need to be led by the Holy Spirit and not be ignorant of Satan's devices.
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6/12/2006 8:34 pm |
Sometimes we can get so focused on a danger that we don't see Satan attacking us and get blindsided by a judgemental spirit, anger, or hatred. I had a pastor for many years who got so involved in a political battle, that he didn't see the different sins seeping into his church. He was too focused, actually frozen on a purpose that he was blinded to the real danger. He no longer pastors, and it is a shame. That is why we need to be led by the Holy Spirit and not be ignorant of Satan's devices.
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6/12/2006 8:37 pm |
NO,JEAN I WAS NOT SPEAKING OF ANY OF YOUR ACTIONS OR POSTS.I CAN TELL THAT YOUR CUP RUNS OVER WITH GOD'S LOVE.I AGREE WITH ALL YOU HAVE SAID.GOD BLESS YOU..I LOVE YOU GIRL! I WAS JUST REMINDED OF A TIME THAT I HURT SO BADLY THAT I PRAYED TO DIE AND FOUND NO LOVE OR COMPASSION FROM THE CHRISTIANS AROUND ME.ITS LIKE GOD HIMSELF REACHED DOWN AND SCOOPED ME UP IN HIS ARMS.BUT YOU ARE SOOOO RIGHT.PEOPLE TEACHING FALSE STATEMENTS OUTSIDE THE SCRIPTURE SHOULD BE CORRRECTED.I ADMIRE YOU FOR THIS. BSK1971,YEAH,I REMEMBER THE RAZOR STRAP WE GOT SPANKED WITH.ALTHOUGH I BELIEVE HE WAS WRONG IN THE MANNER OF PUNISHMENT,I KNEW HE LOVED ME.
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6/13/2006 4:09 am |
NO,JEAN I WAS NOT SPEAKING OF ANY OF YOUR ACTIONS OR POSTS.I CAN TELL THAT YOUR CUP RUNS OVER WITH GOD'S LOVE.I AGREE WITH ALL YOU HAVE SAID.GOD BLESS YOU..I LOVE YOU GIRL! I WAS JUST REMINDED OF A TIME THAT I HURT SO BADLY THAT I PRAYED TO DIE AND FOUND NO LOVE OR COMPASSION FROM THE CHRISTIANS AROUND ME.ITS LIKE GOD HIMSELF REACHED DOWN AND SCOOPED ME UP IN HIS ARMS.BUT YOU ARE SOOOO RIGHT.PEOPLE TEACHING FALSE STATEMENTS OUTSIDE THE SCRIPTURE SHOULD BE CORRRECTED.I ADMIRE YOU FOR THIS. BSK1971,YEAH,I REMEMBER THE RAZOR STRAP WE GOT SPANKED WITH.ALTHOUGH I BELIEVE HE WAS WRONG IN THE MANNER OF PUNISHMENT,I KNEW HE LOVED ME.
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6/14/2006 12:56 am |
I have had the unfortunate job of having to tell people things they didn't always want to hear. So, when a professor told me this, my ears perked up. "You can say almost anything to a person, if you say it softly enough." If you do it with love and the intention of helping them, that will be relayed in your tone. She was right! Personally, I would rather hear bad news about my character or actions from a person who cares about me than have someone bite my head off in anger because I got on their last nerve. I think it is a far more loving act to help our brothers and sisters to live a better life than to let them walk around with the proverbial "KICK ME" sign attached to their backs.
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6/14/2006 5:03 am |
I have had the unfortunate job of having to tell people things they didn't always want to hear. So, when a professor told me this, my ears perked up. "You can say almost anything to a person, if you say it softly enough." If you do it with love and the intention of helping them, that will be relayed in your tone. She was right! Personally, I would rather hear bad news about my character or actions from a person who cares about me than have someone bite my head off in anger because I got on their last nerve. I think it is a far more loving act to help our brothers and sisters to live a better life than to let them walk around with the proverbial "KICK ME" sign attached to their backs.
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6/14/2006 10:20 am |
I don't think we should consider this to be negative, let's say constructive criticisim, as christians we are to be bold and stand for what's right. The truth leaves no room for decision.
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6/14/2006 2:51 pm |
I don't think we should consider this to be negative, let's say constructive criticisim, as christians we are to be bold and stand for what's right. The truth leaves no room for decision.
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6/16/2006 5:06 pm |
I think that there is a time and a place to be blunt with people regarding their edification. We should always try to do it in the most loving way possible, I believe. But, sometimes, they just don't get it. Rather than let them continue to wallow around in the muck and myre, isn't it more kind to pull them aside and let them know how serious their beliefs, behavior, etc are and request change? Even when I have had to really let people "have it", they almost always knew that I was still looking out for them and loved them. Judgement rarely helps and should be left to God. Just my humble opinion.
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6/18/2006 10:38 pm |
Well folks, this one is an area that I truly need help in. I pray about it, and I try, but I can not let anyone who attacks my faith get away with it. I am meek and humble as they get until somebody attacks Christianity. Then out comes the beast. I will jump straight down your throat and make you eat the garbage you are peddling in a big hurry. I have facts and truths to back up my claim. The opposition has nothing substantial to back up there side. I make people very angry. I do not start these types of conversations, but I do finish them. They always end the same way. I will say something that they can not come up with an answer for and stalk off really upset. The sad truth of it is the worst arguments I get into are from my own siblings. You know how they say don't talk about religion and politics? I believe that that term originated when someone realized that they were one in the same. I am as conservative as conservative gets. Someone expressing an opposing viewpoint will always get a lecture from me. My faith dictates how I vote. Period. If the liberals were anti abortion, anti gay marriage, anti crime - pro victim, etc... I would gladly be a proud liberal. My religion dictates how I must vote. One day we will all be judged. We will be asked why we did the things we did about every thing, including why we voted the way we did, or chose not to participate. I don't have the luxury of voting for the guy I like best, the one with the most experience, or even the one with the best character. I have to vote for the one that will make and enforce the laws that will be least likely to conflict with the bible. Period. I know someone is out there saying, "What about capitol punishment"? When Jesus was hanging on the cross and one of the thieves hanging next to him stated that he (speaking of Jesus)did nothing wrong and should not be crucified, Jesus did not turn to him and say "neither should you brother". I know, turn the other cheek, right? Thats if they borrow money and don't pay it back. Not if they rape and murder your family. Cast the first stone right? He was talking to a crowd and asking them which one of them never looked at anyone other than their spouse with lust. Guarantee you will not find many stone throwers if you asked a crowd that today. I am saddened that a lot of churches do not instruct the congregation how to vote and why. This is starting a whole other argument. If someone disagrees with me start a blog and we can duke this one out there. Like I said, I need a little help in this area. I don't seem to be able to approach these subjects without hammering the point home leaving no room for the other person to believe he was anywhere close to right. It is my duty as a Christian to point out wrong behavior, but I know I go about it wrong. At least that's what I am told. I have prayed about it numerous times and have not seemed to be able to make any improvement. I do not claim that I am better than anyone else. I have never said it and never will. I am only trying to show people the truth. I don't think they see it that way though. YBIC, Carl
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