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 | Blogs > godlycook > WHAT IS MAN'S CHIEF END ? > THE CHEAP PARLOR TRICKS OF THE LEGALIST......EXPOSED |
THE CHEAP PARLOR TRICKS OF THE LEGALIST......EXPOSED
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Do any of you remember the TV show that came on, exposing the tricks of the magicians . Well, I'm about to expose one of the cheap parlor tricks, used by the legalist, to prove that God's free gift of Salvation, can be lost. I've been accused of doing a lot of different things, and been called a lot of different names. Recently, a blogger referred to me as a coward and a bully. Yet these same people, who shall remain nameless, can't seem to bring themselves, to stop using their cheap parlor tricks, of abusive manipulation of the WORD OF GOD. Here's a quick look at one of them. " Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud." 2 Pet. 2:22 How many times has someone you know, pulled this trick ? Without any regard for the subject ( or context ), this verse is presented as " proof " for the false teaching of a " conditional salvation ". But is that what Peter had in mind when writing this epistle ? Follow the context carefully, in the second chapter of 2nd Peter; what is Peter describing ? False teachers and their destruction.......not Christians losing their salvation. Don't let these people pull those types of illusions on you. Read the text following the context. Once you do, you'll discover that the entire 2nd chapter ( of 2nd Peter ) is addressing the plight of these false teachers. Isn't it strange that they want to push their demons onto the rest of us. If you want me to, I'll even say it to your face. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7 |
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8/24/2009 10:57 am |
NOT that I plan on getting involved in this latest CIRCUS HERE... but just so everyone knows what you are talking about.... in this post I simply gave a few Bible verses from the OLD TESTAMENT to show what the Bible says causes someone to be lost. If you can lose your salvation Then YOU jumped all over me when I simply quoted verses out of Ezekiel 18, saying that I was being 'Treacherous'... when in reality I hadnt said not one word besides quoting from Ezekiel 18. You were claiming this and that about me, going off on one of your tirades. SO THEN crucified 777 gave you a similar verse from THE NEW TESTAMENT, where the Bible says in Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Then you gave him your answer which, Im sorry but I have GOT TO say this, was ABSOLUTE RUBBISH! I sat here just LAUGHING! Man! You 'grace alone' people sure do know how to take every single New Testament Bible verse about obeying the Law, about Good Works... and TWIST the daylights right out of them! Its literally AMAZING! I have always wondered actually if SOMEBODY or a few SOMEBODY'S got together and came up with a BOOK OF EXCUSES, on not having to obey God's Law. Im sorry but I just HAD to say this. But as I said, I dont intend on saying any more here because frankly Sir, you ARE a Bully! And an ARROGANT one at that. And one cannot even post simple BIBLE VERSES without you accusing them of something. No use even TRYING to have a conversation with you. TAKEN FROM THE BLOG THAT GODLYCOOK IS ALL HOT AND BOTHERED ABOUT LOL! (I just have to LAUGH anymore about all of this, really I do. Hes just mad because I said those verses out of Ezekiel then someone came along and gave them the SAME THING from the New Testament, so now hes going on about 'Cheap Parlour Tricks'... ITS FUNNY!): crucified777: blessings godlycook wanted to give you a scripture can you explain this for me I don't want to take it out of context i am not trying to stirr up strife sincerely asking for illumination....here it is HEB. 10:24-29 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? GODLYCOOK'S ANSWER: Great question......Many people will attempt to use portions of the epistle to the Hebrews, to teach that a believer can lose his ( or her ) salvation. A closer study of the book of Hebrews reveals the purpose for this epistle, which was to warn the Jews; who were trying to straddle the fence between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. In other words, they wanted to have one foot on the law and the other on Christ. The writer of Hebrews explains the superiority of Christ, to Moses, the old priesthood, the sacrifices, along with all of the laws found in the TORAH ( the first five books of the Bible ). He explains that the first covenant has been made obsolete, and will soon disappear ( Heb. 8:13 ). The repeated warnings are against the unbelief of the Jews, for rejecting the sacrifice of Christ ( who can only die once ), and for wanting to continue keeping the law, after such a great sacrifice was made for sin. A sacrifice that totally removed the sins of those who believe. The tenth chapter explains to the Jews ( and the New Covenant Christian ) that the law is only a shadow, and that by the one sacrifice of Christ; our sins and lawless acts are no more remembered. Why ? Because they have been forgiven. In the verse preceding verse 24 we read: " Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. " What hope ? If the writer is suggesting ( or warning ) in verses 26 - 29 that salvation is in danger of being lost, for not obeying the law; what is the purpose of the New Covenant ? The warning is to those who continue to reject; the one time sacrifice of Christ ( and who will be punished for so ), and who still feel the need to hold onto the Old Covenant ( by observing the law ). That's exactly what verse 29 addresses: "How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? " That's a pretty stern warning to all who reject the Blood of Christ, and the Spirit of grace; which ushered in the New Covenant and paid for all of the believers sins; once for all time. Don't let anyone twist the text, to mean something else. "But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved. "Heb. 10:39
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8/24/2009 11:12 am |
And by the way, the CORRECT WAY for you to have acted, over on Sensory's blog would have been simply to say to me, "Claudia, I do not believe that the Bible verses you provided from Ezekiel 18 apply to us today, can you please explain why YOU believe it applies to us?" AND THEN, Godlycook, we couldve had a DECENT CIVILIZED DISCUSSION. But you WONT DO THAT. You always have to hurl accuasations around like there is no tomorrow, making it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone who has an opposing view from you, to even attempt to state his or her views. THAT is why I will never attempt to do it again. There is no point in it. It is everybody must submit to your way of thinking or else they are going to be castigated and ridiculed for the next week or two, as demonstrated by the events that took place here very recently.
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8/24/2009 2:56 pm |
The crux of our differences lies in my belief that it is you who is manipulating the Word of God. Belief in God represents a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints
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8/24/2009 8:05 pm |
Claudia..........if I'm such a big bullie. Why do you keep showing up, on my blog trying your best to make me look like the bad guy ? Can't you even follow your own advice ? Now you're trying to make crucified777 look as though he supports your position. He, unlike you, has a real question about the passage from the Book of Hebrews. He's trying to come to the correct understanding of the text, which is understandable; with all of the confusion here at BC. But even if he is looking for support from the text, to believe or teach, that the writer is warning Christians, of the danger of loosing their salvation, he'll have to look elsewhere. To answer your complaint about my response to your post on sensory's blog. His question was, " If you can lose your salvation..........can you gain it back again ? " You tried answering the question by quoting from a passage in the Book of Ezekiel. You ( and the rest of your hordes ) can never produce a passage; that specifically warns true believers of loosing their salvation. So, by slight of hand, with the assistance of smoke and mirrors; you pull verses out of their context, giving them a different meaning from the writers intent. That's why I jump all over you.....and I'll keep jumping all over you, as long as you continue using those cheap parlor tricks. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/24/2009 8:15 pm |
The crux of our differences lies in my belief that it is you who is manipulating the Word of God.  No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/24/2009 8:17 pm |
And by the way, the CORRECT WAY for you to have acted, over on Sensory's blog would have been simply to say to me, "Claudia, I do not believe that the Bible verses you provided from Ezekiel 18 apply to us today, can you please explain why YOU believe it applies to us?" AND THEN, Godlycook, we couldve had a DECENT CIVILIZED DISCUSSION. But you WONT DO THAT. You always have to hurl accuasations around like there is no tomorrow, making it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone who has an opposing view from you, to even attempt to state his or her views. THAT is why I will never attempt to do it again. There is no point in it. It is everybody must submit to your way of thinking or else they are going to be castigated and ridiculed for the next week or two, as demonstrated by the events that took place here very recently. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/24/2009 11:10 pm |
Steve; This time I agree with you. You explained the book of Hebrews correctly, and that Hebrews is written to a particular group of believers. Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: That is clearly who Hebrews is written to. Another, of the favoritte parlor tricks I've seen is the following. Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. This is another one taken out of context and used to prove salvation is of works, but the term, 'work out,' is more akin to 'demonstrate', much like another passage which explains this conceipt. James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. One more misunderstood verse pops up occasionally, but again if read in it's proper context, confirms what we have been taught from the Bible. Heb. 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. This verse is often used to say that if you are saved, but fall away, that you can't get saved again, and that is only partly true. If you fall away, you can't get saved again because you are still saved to begin with, so you can't get re-saved. You just repent of the sin, and receive forgiveness. How people can not grasp this is only because they don't want to believe that salvation is so simple to obtain. They feel the need to add something else to it, because of itself, it's too simple for them. So they change it, and miss the boat. Jer. 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. Good post Steve. Isaiah 66:2b; But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.
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8/25/2009 2:05 am |
Hi Steve! 
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8/25/2009 7:24 am |
Speaking of cheap parlor tricks.....here's a great example taken from Claudia's recent post [post 155760] pay careful attention to the list of " Proof Text " all taken out of context, in order to prove salvation can be lost. Notice how she uses the right hand to draw attention away from; what the left hand is actually doing. Her added commentary is the smoke and mirrors. This is taken from that post: We MUST maintain a living righteous relationship with Jesus, who is our Source of salvation. Jesus said, "He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matthew 24:13. Those who DO NOT endure to the end will have their names blotted out of the book of life. Revelation 3:5, "He that overcometh . . . I will not blot out his name out of the book of life." This makes it clear that those who are not overcomers - who do not endure to the end - will have their names blotted out. These verses are all saying the same thing. When we wilfully sin, we are breaking the relationship by which eternal life is obtained. LISTEN to all of the IF's here: "If we walk in the light . . . the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." 1 John 1: 7. "If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father." 1 John 2:24. "If any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." Hebrews 10:38. "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch." John 15:6. "If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death." John 8:51. "If thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." Romans 11:22. "If ye do these things, ye shall never fall." 2 Peter 1:10. "For we are made partakers of Christ, If we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end." Hebrews 3:14. "If we endure, we shall also reign with him: If we deny him, he also will deny us." 2 Timothy 2:12 "If we sin willfully . . . there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26. "If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1 John 2:15. "Ye are my friends, If ye do whatsoever I command you." John 15:14. "If ye live after the flesh, ye shall die." Romans 8:13. SPECIFICALLY THE BOOK OF HEBREWS: The writer of the book of Hebrews gives scores of specific admonitions against falling away from the faith. Hebrews 10:23 begins a line of argument against the once-saved, always-saved idea that no one can refute. The passage begins this way: "Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering." The author of this epistle, the Apostle Paul, INCLUDES HIMSELF in the warning. He writes, "For if WE sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now the last few verses of the chapter warn against the casting away of their confidence. "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. . . . Now the just shall live by faith; but if any man draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." Verses 35 to 39. How could the fact that one's eternal salvation is conditional on his remaining steadfast to the very end be made more clear? In Hebrews 6:4-6 we find another warning. "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." This is a description of a person who had been born again but who later rebelled against God and rejected Christ and rejected the Holy Spirit. He has put himself out of God's reach by his OWN ACTIONS. Therefore, there is no possibility that a man such as this can be saved as long as he continues to 'crucify Christ afresh' by his disobedience. Just for the purpose of revealing ( the trick ), a quick quick look, at one of her " Proof Text " reveals the truth. She quotes Hebrews 10:38 as proof for a believer losing his salvation. size 4]"If any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." Hebrews 10:38. But the very next verse Heb. 10:39 says: " But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved. "Heb. 10:39 Another cheap trick exposed. I'll be taking a closer look at Claudia's post to reveal more of her tricks. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/25/2009 12:09 pm |
well I wont come here to your blog anymore Stevem and how about you dont come to mine either, thank you.
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8/25/2009 12:09 pm |
I will be deleting your posts
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8/25/2009 3:14 pm |
Ty Steve for posting this. I hope it helps many to see that context is so very important in studying the Word, and coming to the correct understanding. I thank God that He makes clear that His Word is truth. Not many truths, where a person can just choose which one they want to believe. Each and every word in it, or sentence, has A truth, not many opposing truths. That's confusion, and we know where confusion comes from. 1st Co. 14:33 "God is not the author of confusion...." so we know who is. Satan loves confusion of scripture. He tried it on Jesus as soon as He started His ministry. Blessings, Robin "There is no pit so deep, that God's love is not deeper still" Corrie Tenboom
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8/25/2009 5:25 pm |
Ty Steve for posting this. I hope it helps many to see that context is so very important in studying the Word, and coming to the correct understanding. I thank God that He makes clear that His Word is truth. Not many truths, where a person can just choose which one they want to believe. Each and every word in it, or sentence, has A truth, not many opposing truths. That's confusion, and we know where confusion comes from. 1st Co. 14:33 "God is not the author of confusion...." so we know who is. Satan loves confusion of scripture. He tried it on Jesus as soon as He started His ministry. Blessings, Robin You've done a fantastic job at showing that studying the Word IN CONTEXT is so very important for correct understanding. Thanks for being so diligent at sharing your insight and wisdom with us! Captured by HIS LOVE  Kept by HIS GRACE 
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8/25/2009 8:57 pm |
well I wont come here to your blog anymore Stevem and how about you dont come to mine either, thank you. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/25/2009 9:01 pm |
I will be deleting your posts No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/25/2009 9:04 pm |
Steve; This time I agree with you. You explained the book of Hebrews correctly, and that Hebrews is written to a particular group of believers. Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: That is clearly who Hebrews is written to. Another, of the favoritte parlor tricks I've seen is the following. Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. This is another one taken out of context and used to prove salvation is of works, but the term, 'work out,' is more akin to 'demonstrate', much like another passage which explains this conceipt. James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. One more misunderstood verse pops up occasionally, but again if read in it's proper context, confirms what we have been taught from the Bible. Heb. 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. This verse is often used to say that if you are saved, but fall away, that you can't get saved again, and that is only partly true. If you fall away, you can't get saved again because you are still saved to begin with, so you can't get re-saved. You just repent of the sin, and receive forgiveness. How people can not grasp this is only because they don't want to believe that salvation is so simple to obtain. They feel the need to add something else to it, because of itself, it's too simple for them. So they change it, and miss the boat. Jer. 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. Good post Steve. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/25/2009 9:13 pm |
Hi Steve! No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/25/2009 9:20 pm |
Ty Steve for posting this. I hope it helps many to see that context is so very important in studying the Word, and coming to the correct understanding. I thank God that He makes clear that His Word is truth. Not many truths, where a person can just choose which one they want to believe. Each and every word in it, or sentence, has A truth, not many opposing truths. That's confusion, and we know where confusion comes from. 1st Co. 14:33 "God is not the author of confusion...." so we know who is. Satan loves confusion of scripture. He tried it on Jesus as soon as He started His ministry. Blessings, Robin No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/25/2009 9:28 pm |
Godlycook, You've done a fantastic job at showing that studying the Word IN CONTEXT is so very important for correct understanding. Thanks for being so diligent at sharing your insight and wisdom with us! No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/26/2009 3:05 am |
You mean to tell me, I finally got one right.     Captured by HIS LOVE Kept by HIS GRACE
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8/26/2009 8:40 am |
Let's take a closer look at how Claudia mishandles the WORD OF GOD. Again this is taken from her recent post, which she deleted. I'm glad I grabbed it when I did. Here's what she says: " We MUST maintain a living righteous relationship with Jesus, who is our Source of salvation. Jesus said, "He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matthew 24:13. Those who DO NOT endure to the end will have their names blotted out of the book of life. Revelation 3:5, "He that overcometh . . . I will not blot out his name out of the book of life." This makes it clear that those who are not overcomers - who do not endure to the end - will have their names blotted out. " This stuff is taken directly from one of the oldest parlor tricks in Satan's handbook. First lets look at Matt. 24:13 ( in context ), to get a real understanding of what Jesus is addressing. In the 24th chapter of Matt.; Jesus was responding to two questions; asked by His disciples, concerning the end of the age ( how and when would it happen ). Jesus begins by warning the disciples of the false Christ who will come in His name. He goes on the explain such things as wars, famines, earthquakes which are just the beginning birth pains. He also warns of the persecution of the believers which would include ( for some ) death, and in verses 10 thru 13 He says: " At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. " Here's where the tricksters pull the text out of context, by neglecting to address the particular period of time being explained i.e. the end of the age. They manipulate the text to teach " conditional " salvation. It's clear from the text that during this period many who professed to know Christ will desert the faith ( not lose their salvation ), because of, the intense persecution that will take place at this time. Persecution ( if intense enough ) has a way of exposing the hypocrites ( or fakes ), and God will send persecution to show those who are really His. So the question becomes......endures to the end of what ? If its enduring ( standing firm ) to the end of your life, then you couldn't be expected to be saved; because this ( the end of the age ) hasn't occurred yet. You'd have to try to hang in there until the tribulation starts and ends. You may not live that long. If however, we take what Jesus said at face value........then we understand that those who are alive ( during that time ) and endure till the end of that period will be saved ( bodily ). That's why Jesus said: " And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened. " Matt. 24:22 Now let's look at what Ms. Claudia said about Rev. 3:5, and being blotted out of the Book of life. She said: " Revelation 3:5, "He that overcometh . . . I will not blot out his name out of the book of life." This makes it clear that those who are not overcomers - who do not endure to the end - will have their names blotted out. " What do you notice about her misquote of Rev. 3:5 ? All of those dotted lines to start with, where is the rest of the verse ? Then she has the nerve to say this makes it clear !! Here's the passage in question. 1 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, ‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. 6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ In the third chapter of the Book of Revelation, two churches are addressed. The first the church at Sardis ( the dead church ) and the second the church at Philadelphia ( the faithful church ). The church at Sardis is warned by the angel about its need to repent, yet the angel says there are a few who have not soiled ( defiled ) their garments who would walk with Christ in white. Claudia has taken the liberty; to imply that your name can be blotted out of the Book of life, if you don't endure ( or overcome ). The text doesn't suggest that a believers name can be removed ( or blotted out ) from the Book of life. The names that appear in the Book of life, are permanently etched on the pages and will never be removed. Just keep in mind that there were a few at the dead church, who walked with Christ, and their names were never in danger of erasure. Rev. 3:5 is further evidence of the promise of God, to keep the believer safe, He will not remove from the Book, those He put in the Book. I'll discuss that in more detail later. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/27/2009 5:23 am |
The " crux " as you put it, has absolutely nothing to do with your belief, that I am the one manipulating scripture. The crux ( hard problem ) as it were; is that you have to prove your position........and I don't believe you've got the power; to prove me wrong. But you're welcomed to try. Depending on "evidence" to prove your relationship with God to other people is the craftiest parlor trick of all. Belief in God represents a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints
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8/27/2009 8:12 pm |
The crux (center or core) of the problem is I don't have to prove anything to you. I don't have to prove me right nor do I need to prove you wrong. You are not involved in my relationship with God....just God and me. If I have become an integral part of your relationship with God, insofar as you feel an unrelenting need to "prove" your beliefs to me, then I suggest you reassess your relationship with God. Depending on "evidence" to prove your relationship with God to other people is the craftiest parlor trick of all. " The crux of our differences lies in my belief that it is you who is manipulating the Word of God. " You believe that I am the one " manipulating " God's Word, you accused me of being wrong, so the crux ( important point at issue ) for you are our differences ( of belief ). If you want to accuse someone ( me ) of being wrong about something, you should be able to show why, you believe what you say. Since you haven't shown us why you believe I'm wrong, I used crux as a point of difficulty for you; because its easier for you to say I'm wrong; than it is for you to actually prove it. You're taking the same approach the Pharisees used against Jesus, they accused Him of misleading the masses; but none of them could prove it. Unless of course, they called on false witnesses. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/27/2009 10:44 pm |
The word CRUX has two different meanings. It can mean, most important point at issue, and it can also mean particular point of difficulty. You said: " The crux of our differences lies in my belief that it is you who is manipulating the Word of God. " You believe that I am the one " manipulating " God's Word, you accused me of being wrong, so the crux ( important point at issue ) for you are our differences ( of belief ). If you want to accuse someone ( me ) of being wrong about something, you should be able to show why, you believe what you say. Since you haven't shown us why you believe I'm wrong, I used crux as a point of difficulty for you; because its easier for you to say I'm wrong; than it is for you to actually prove it. You're taking the same approach the Pharisees used against Jesus, they accused Him of misleading the masses; but none of them could prove it. Unless of course, they called on false witnesses. Belief in God represents a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints
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8/28/2009 4:23 pm |
Your misunderstanding continues. I have never indicated in any way you are wrong. You believe what you believe for reasons best known to you and based on those reasons you have developed a relationship with God which best suits your needs. Yes, your needs, despite your belief you are in a relationship which God dictates, you are in control of your core beliefs and have adapted them to align with what you believe God wants. Here's the confusing part...........so have I. I have done the exact same thing, I have entered into a relationship with God which I believe God has determined is the best for us. You are not part of that relationship and there is no need for me to prove to you or explain to you any aspect of it.......it is between God and me, just like your relationship with Him is between Him and you. I am at peace with my relationship with God and it is my belief you will be at greater peace as well when you finally reach the understanding there is no singular, right or wrong relationship with God, just your relationship with Him. " it is you who is manipulating the Word of God. " That statement means that I'm the guilty one, because to you, I manipulate the Word of God. Doesn't that mean I'm wrong ( if I'm the one manipulating scripture ), and that I should be corrected ? It isn't simply a matter of me having one kind of relationship with God, while you have a completely different kind of relationship with God. Christianity is not a matter of private relationships ( or personal walks ), where we get to think independently of each other ( or of God's Word ). We are to be of ONE MIND ( thinking alike ), striving together, for the faith of the Gospel. If I'm wrong, correct me, don't just let me walk in error. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/29/2009 7:14 am |
If all people were to be of one mind, God would not have granted us free will and we would all be clones. Your interpretation of the Word of God differs greatly from mine. Where we differ is your believe one of us is wrong and one of us is right. I am not in a position to judge your relationship with God, nor do I pretend to be. By the same token, I don't believe you're in a position to judge my relationship with God. We are of the same mindset vis a vis God. We both believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior, and as the Son of God. We believe He died for our sins and we believe if we follow Him faithfully we will have eternal life. If you believe I'm manipulating (your phrase) the Word of God to suit my personal wants and needs, I can only refute that which leads me inexorably to the conclusion that if there is manipulation of the Word of God it must be from your standpoint. I still do not see this as right or wrong, just different interpretations. I believe the world is, in vast majority, gray. In believing this I find it very difficult to categorize things as right or wrong. I am not perfect, and therefore the belief system I carry may not be "right" but it may not be "wrong" either. I strive to keep my mind and my heart open to the possibility I may have made some erroneous decisions or assumptions in reaching the belief system to which I ascribe. In keeping mindful of my human characteristics I realize my journey here is not ended and try to keep a very personal relationship with God. I can only do the very best I can.........and I am. Belief in God represents a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints
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8/30/2009 7:24 pm |
If all people were to be of one mind, God would not have granted us free will and we would all be clones. Your interpretation of the Word of God differs greatly from mine. Where we differ is your believe one of us is wrong and one of us is right. I am not in a position to judge your relationship with God, nor do I pretend to be. By the same token, I don't believe you're in a position to judge my relationship with God. We are of the same mindset vis a vis God. We both believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior, and as the Son of God. We believe He died for our sins and we believe if we follow Him faithfully we will have eternal life. If you believe I'm manipulating (your phrase) the Word of God to suit my personal wants and needs, I can only refute that which leads me inexorably to the conclusion that if there is manipulation of the Word of God it must be from your standpoint. I still do not see this as right or wrong, just different interpretations. I believe the world is, in vast majority, gray. In believing this I find it very difficult to categorize things as right or wrong. I am not perfect, and therefore the belief system I carry may not be "right" but it may not be "wrong" either. I strive to keep my mind and my heart open to the possibility I may have made some erroneous decisions or assumptions in reaching the belief system to which I ascribe. In keeping mindful of my human characteristics I realize my journey here is not ended and try to keep a very personal relationship with God. I can only do the very best I can.........and I am. 27 " Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with ONE MIND striving together for the faith of the gospel, "Phil.1:27 Looks like one mind to me. The word of God clearly says with ONE MIND, meaning in unity of thought. But you can't have unity of thought, or distinguish right and wrong; if everything looks gray. You said: " I am not perfect, and therefore the belief system I carry may not be "right" but it may not be "wrong" either. " WHAT !!?? Are you familiar with the term " Deconstructionism " ? Well, that's certainly what you sound like......... a Deconstructionist. Read below Question: "Deconstructionism - is it a valid way to interpret the Bible?" Answer: Deconstructionism is basically a theory of textual criticism or interpretation that denies that there is any single correct meaning or interpretation of a passage or text. At the heart of the deconstructionist theory of interpretation are two primary ideas. First is the idea that no passage or text can possibly convey a single reliable, consistent, and coherent message to everyone who reads or hears it. The second is that the author who wrote the text is less responsible for the piece's content than are the impersonal forces of culture such as language and their unconscious ideology. Therefore the very basic tenets of deconstructionism are contrary to the clear teaching of the Bible that absolute truth does exist and we can indeed know it (Deuteronomy 32:4; Isaiah 65:16; John 1:17-18; John 14:6; John 15:26-27; Galatians 2:5).  No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/31/2009 1:25 am |
If your theory or your answer is the "right" answer, why isn't there but one, single Christian Church? Belief in God represents a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints
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8/31/2009 3:33 pm |
If your theory or your answer is the "right" answer, why isn't there but one, single Christian Church? No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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8/31/2009 7:56 pm |
Good luck on your singular journey.......... Belief in God represents a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints
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9/1/2009 12:07 am |
Hi Lee.......how are ya ? 
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9/2/2009 5:28 am |
what happened to your face..put yer picture up plzzzz GodIsMovinfByHisSpirit
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9/2/2009 12:47 pm |
what happened to your face..put yer picture up plzzzz No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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9/3/2009 11:21 pm |
You people are spending so much precious time acting like fools. xtians are always using that scripture "God is the same today and always" when they want to use to to justify their needs from him and HIS FAITHFULNESS. You all agree that the laws SHOWS US OUR SINS, true? Arent you HAPPY ABOUT THAT? Jesus, being man, showed us that we can indeed keep the laws. It seems to me the only reason you want to toss the laws out is because of the sabbath, for you ALL say, worship only God, honor your parents, and the others that follow. Only ONE is omitted from your beliefs. Dont you realize that his HOLY DAY is a day of REST? and is a shadow of things to COME? you are wasting such precious time needing just to be 'teachers, pastors, preachers, soul savers... when its YOUR souls you should be concerned about, for you are all in sin. godlykook, you have no INTEREST in the safety of ANYONES souls, you are simply out on a power trip. Claudia, i have tried so hard to befriend you, but you TURN EVERYONE away as if you are the only one that will survive, to the point I might add that YOU SHUN the very people IN YOUR OWN SECT. Then have the audacity to say how much you love everyone and you are concerned for their lives? If I could get on bended knee I would beg you claudia to drop it all, start all over WITH JESUS AS YOUR TEACHER.. you need him so desperately girl.. this stuff going on is making you sick. But instead you are pulling tigers tails, while at the same time acting like the tigers you are trying to battle. In Zech, it speaks of the prophets and how they will become ashamed ... ALL OF THEM, because we dont need anymore prophets we HAVE JESUS. that includes any religion not allowing JEsus to be the teacher. Jesus HASSSSSSSSSS allllllllll the answers to this little problem here he really does! gc, you have LITERALLY tried (and failed) to convince me that I can not follow Jesus, be just like Jesus... to the point that God himself will dwell in me. Just as he did Jesus. These arguments would continue on through out eternity if God would allow such a thing.. I dont see anything but soul rapers here... every last one of you want to win... for sect sake..for prides sake.. there is NO JESUS here. and gc, that AWEFUL thread you make mocking the sabbath... and you want to talk about 'legalist'? I would be SOOOOOOOO ASHAMED if I were you. When God took the isrealites to be his 'small people', it was to show the world the light... and since that time the WHOLE WORLD has been trying to kill off Gods people. And Jesus says, they wont go in the light, because they like darkness better.... well we cant see our dirty spots in the dark can we? Jesus is the way, truth and life.. he is also the light.. he taught from the OT.. he taught Gods WAY... "seek Gods righteousness and his kingdom and all these things will be added unto you" How can you do that if you tear his laws, his ways, his counsel to shreads?... And completely ignore JEsus in the meantime. the bible is there to correct YOU... its not put there so you can CORRECT OTHERS first.. its there to HEAL YOU... to allow you to see and hear.. Claudia I am starting to think that you actually KNOW BETTER. If we arent willing to step INTO the light and be PRIVLEDGED to see our sins, how in the world are we ever to obey God? Satan deceived the WHOLE WORLD.... with a lie... He has tried to remove God, his laws, his rules EVERYTHING Godly away from ALL OF US. YOu all are wasting such precious time..... YOURS.. time is ticking away you know... God has an acceptable time.. and Jesus teaches of the fig tree being cursed BEFORE it was even in its season to BEAR FRUIT.. billions and billions of people are going to die. in their sins.
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9/4/2009 5:43 am |
I think I just got the BEST AHA MOMENT OF MY HISTORY ......... JUST BY TALKING TO OTHER PEOPLE.. You know JEsus says we will be judged by what we say... and I ALWAYS go back and read what I have just written.. you wont understand me here, sorry bout that... continue on in your battle of whatever LOL here! you can have my sword LOL
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9/4/2009 5:57 am |
Mustard N Pearls, Sorry but I answer to God, not to you.
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9/4/2009 7:30 am |
Brother Steve,I agree,we can not lose our salvation! Personally, I believe it takes prayer to understand this beautiful truth. It is only through the guidance of His Holy Spirit that we can understand Gods unfailing love for us,and when we understand this,we will know that we will never lose His love, nor His salvation.
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9/4/2009 9:05 pm |
Mustard........for someone who isn't even in the fight, you certainly have a lot to say ( about nothing ). Have you actually been following the battle ? Satan is trying his level best to deceive ( and keep deceiving ) people just like you. Its people like you that I'm concerned about, because people like you, have fallen prey to the schemes of satan. It's your soul ( and those who think like you ) that I'm concerned about. Why ? Because you believe a different Gospel, and have a different Christ, and therefore you are trusting in a false hope. You, like so many others here; are trusting in yourselves for salvation. You have made up your own Jesus, a Jesus who you think only came, and lived as an example. You actually think you can copy what Jesus did. Well, let me ask you something. What good would come, if you were nailed to that cross instead of Jesus ? Could your blood save anybody ? Your blood is absolutely worthless, and it certainly couldn't even save you. You need to rethink your position, while there's still time. Once you die there will be no second chance. By the way, the power grab ( you speak of ) is between Jesus and satan. I'm only a vessel God uses to preach the good news ( of the Gospel ) concerning Christ and why He came. By warning people such as yourself......... So you won't end up in hell. "How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. " Romans 10:14 -17 This is the way souls are saved, by hearing the message of Christ because someone preached it. I've been preaching it; but people like you aren't listening........I wonder why ?  No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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9/4/2009 9:08 pm |
Good luck on your singular journey.......... No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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9/4/2009 9:10 pm |
I think I just got the BEST AHA MOMENT OF MY HISTORY ......... JUST BY TALKING TO OTHER PEOPLE.. You know JEsus says we will be judged by what we say... and I ALWAYS go back and read what I have just written.. you wont understand me here, sorry bout that... continue on in your battle of whatever LOL here! you can have my sword LOL  No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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9/4/2009 9:14 pm |
Mustard N Pearls, Sorry but I answer to God, not to you. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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9/4/2009 9:22 pm |
Brother Steve,I agree,we can not lose our salvation! Personally, I believe it takes prayer to understand this beautiful truth. It is only through the guidance of His Holy Spirit that we can understand Gods unfailing love for us,and when we understand this,we will know that we will never lose His love, nor His salvation. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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9/6/2009 5:37 pm |
Mustard........for someone who isn't even in the fight, you certainly have a lot to say ( about nothing ). Have you actually been following the battle ? Satan is trying his level best to deceive ( and keep deceiving ) people just like you. Its people like you that I'm concerned about, because people like you, have fallen prey to the schemes of satan. It's your soul ( and those who think like you ) that I'm concerned about. Why ? Because you believe a different Gospel, and have a different Christ, and therefore you are trusting in a false hope. You, like so many others here; are trusting in yourselves for salvation. You have made up your own Jesus, a Jesus who you think only came, and lived as an example. You actually think you can copy what Jesus did. Well, let me ask you something. What good would come, if you were nailed to that cross instead of Jesus ? Could your blood save anybody ? Your blood is absolutely worthless, and it certainly couldn't even save you. You need to rethink your position, while there's still time. Once you die there will be no second chance. By the way, the power grab ( you speak of ) is between Jesus and satan. I'm only a vessel God uses to preach the good news ( of the Gospel ) concerning Christ and why He came. By warning people such as yourself......... So you won't end up in hell. "How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. " Romans 10:14 -17 This is the way souls are saved, by hearing the message of Christ because someone preached it. I've been preaching it; but people like you aren't listening........I wonder why ? And you are concerned about me? You flunked your first lesson, so what is it that you have that can protect me? Nothing. As far as Jesus is concerned, you wouldnt know what I know because you dont follow him. "we will see him as he is"... that is talking about Jesus.. amazing that little statement hmm? Maybe because I am sitting at Jesus feet, learning OF HIM, allowing him to take me where he wants.. I am seeing him as he is .. Cant know him if you are talking about other people. Or being taught by another. People like me arent listening to you concerning your message you say? People in the OT COULDNT hear those preachers, prophets and such either, could they? Just as Jesus said.  He is very cool. Take a 'weight off yer back' you dont have to protect me, someone else is.
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9/8/2009 10:19 am |
Mustard N Pearls, Sorry but I answer to God, not to you. I hear a voice from God too.. A very LOUD one.. "This is My Son, whom I am well pleased, hear ye Him".. Stand anything you have against that and see where you are. I bet you are so very tired inside from that 'job' you think you haven been given from God... finish that book yet btw?
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