 | Blogs > godlycook > WHAT IS MAN'S CHIEF END ? > STRONG-WILLED WOMEN ( A man's imput ) |
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This is a separate post from the one aneleh put up, on the subject of the book " Strong-Willed Woman " by Cynthia Tobias. I was the only man who ventured into the subject. It was requested that I start my own post on this subject, so I am. Those who want to pickup on the full discussion, read the blog MYTHS AND ABOUT THE STRONG-WILLED WOMAN Below you'll see my comments on the topic. I'd like to see some men comment on this topic. My first statement: I wonder why none of the men commented on this topic ? I first heard Cynthia Tobias; on a radio talk show several years ago. She was discussing her Book " The Way We learn " and she was explaining the different learning styles we each have ( I happen to agree with her book ). I haven't read the book you've mentioned, but I do understand something about being a " Strong-Willed " person. This can be just as true of some men, as it is of some women ( as well as of children ). When this shows itself in children (or in a marriage ); it is a matter of social dominance, and parents ( and husbands ) must know how to deal with it. There are both good and bad consequences, of being " strong-willed ". A Christian wife, who may be strong-willed, must be careful, not to become contentious ( or controlling ) in her marriage. Strong willed women tend to want to TAKE the control, and in a marriage; this can become a serious problem. Two people vying for control leads to many a divorce. A Christian wife ( or woman ) is a woman who is being controlled by the Holy Spirit, and who always submits to the Spirits leading, she is not assertive ( especially in the home ), and always submits to her head ( if married ). Being strong-willed can be have its advantages, but lets not overlook the disadvantages. Nice post. My second statement: Am I the only guy hanging out here ? I have a couple of questions. Kim said that we are to submit to each other. Kim can you please explain, how that would apply in a marriage ? longing4more.......I take it you were referring to my comment when you said: " There was a comment in this blog that a strong willed woman can ruin a marriage. Anyone can ruin a marriage. " Thats not what I said. You twisted what I said. This is what I said: " Strong willed women tend to want to TAKE the control, and in a marriage; this can become a serious problem. Two people vying for control leads to many a divorce. " Certainly anyone can ruin a marriage......a mother-in-law can ruin a marriage; but I was addressing the problem ( of control ) that a strong-willed woman can take into a marriage. You also asked the question about a woman ( a very strong vessel as you put it ) taking the lead. I presume you are addressing the question of a wife taking the lead, in a Christian marriage. If so, the wife never takes the lead. The husband is the head of the wife ( its not a theory ) regardless of how the wife feels about her husbands ability ( or lack thereof ) to lead. Likewise the husband is the head of the wife, regardless of how he feels about his ability to lead. Its a divine order, not a theory. I once overheard women talking about their husbands, stating that they would only submit to their husbands, when ( and if ) their husbands would act like the head. Nowhere in scripture does it say.....wives only submit to your husbands, if your husbands, act like they are the head. This is one method, used by some women, to try to circumvent the divine command; for the wife to submit to her husband. This does not take away from the equality of the husband and wife, but it establishes a necessary order in the home. Two people vying for control in the home, only leads to disaster. I wish more men would join in.  My third statement: Sorry Kim but you're not addressing the subject. You said: " Well in some respects Steve I would have to agree with you but on others not. First of all, Yes, a dominant woman can ruin a marriage but for that matter so can a dominant male." The title of the book is " The Strong-Willed Woman ", not " The Strong-Willed Man ". In a marriage there can only be one head ( not two ) having two heads creates a monster. Something else, I've heard women say ( in response to the headship of their husbands ); is this, " He's the head, but I'm the neck; and I turn the head whichever way I will. " God ordained marriage so that there would be structure ( a chain of command, as it were ) in the home, so that the family can function smoothly. The wife is intended to compliment her husband, by working together with him to the glory of God. Being equally yoked means pulling in the same direction. If the wife constantly pulls against her husband ( which strong willed women tend to do ) then the marriage becomes fragile and often falls apart. The wife is not the husbands house slave, footstool, sex toy or baby sitter. Some men ( far too many ), get married with the idea, that now they have someone to wash their clothes, cook their meals, do the dishes and raise their children. That is not the Biblical concept of marriage. Men need to understand that they are just as responsible for doing chores around the house as the wife is. The wife shouldn't be expected to do everything, and the husband shouldn't be expected to do everything. If the wife works outside the home, the money she earns isn't hers, and the same is true of the husband. Everything is shared form the house work to the bank account. There is no " This is mine and that's yours " Its ours together. In a Christian context the husband is commanded to love his wife, so much so, as to give his life for her. The wife is commanded to submit to her husband, as to the Lord. The husband can't force his wife to submit to his headship, nor can the wife force her husband to love her as Christ loves His church. Both the husband and the wife out of their willful obedience to Christ's command, obey Him; and neither can browbeat the other into doing what is expected of them. Paul even tells wives who may have an unbelieving husband, not to try and win them over with words ( becoming preachy ) or by demanding their rights. Instead the Christian wife stands a better chance of winning her unsaved husband, by living a gentile submissive life; with respect for her husband. A gentile and quite spirit is is of great value in the sight of God. Let me add.......that in my marriage; I cooked, washed the dishes, made the baby formula, feed the babies, changed the diapers, did the laundry, ironed my clothes, prepared the boys lunch's for school, cut their hair, cut the grass and repaired what broke ( when I could ). I didn't come in from work, sit down and put my feet up. Some say I did too much. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7 |
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10/22/2008 10:11 pm |
Good Post Brother. Sounds like proper Biblical family order to me.
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10/22/2008 10:28 pm |
Hi Steve; I got in here late. Been off the blogs for several months due to flooding in my area, and even since I've been back, I haven't been here on B.C. a lot. I have never read the book you mentioned. In trying to follow the posts, I'm not always totally sure who was saying what except for where names are used. If I'm understanding what I've read, you're holding more to the tradition, and ways specified in Scripture, and Kim seems to be somewhat resistant, if not even passively defensive of women having more authority. I'm inclined to agree more with you, and I suppose some women may feel I would take such a stance because I'm a man. But in fact it is because it is supported by Scripture. The Bible does indeed confirm that the man is the head of the household, (in the marriage), and it has been that way since the fall of man. Man has that headship position, wheither he wants it or not, wheither he is qualified or not, wheither he is walking it or not, and wheither his wife thinks he should have it or not. That is what Scripture tells us. Is it fair? Not always, but no place in the Bible does God tell us that life is fair. That said, how the husband leads is another matter. There are way too many men who abuse their position as head of household. Yes they are out there, and Kim may think it's her duty to point them out, but that of itself has nothing to do with the subject you have made this blog about. We are discussing strong willed women here. A strong willed woman who refues allow her husband to lead in the marriage can indeed, and usually will ruin a marriage, and yes an overbearing man can also do so, but again that is not what we are discussing here. This matter does hit home with me because my ex-wife is a very strong willed woman who went more then overboard, but I'll not use this blog to insult her. Strangely enough, my new fiancee is also a strong willed woman, although nothing at all like my ex-wife was. With my betrothed, I am seeing that a woman can be very strong, yet still submissive. She is very good about communicating herself, (sometimes a little too good  ) yet she does so without forcing herself, or nagging.She is quick to tell me when I'm wrong,(just like all women are  ) but then she leaves it for me to handle or not. Most of the time she is right.She has her times where she will complain and make a drama,  I'll let her carry on as long as I can tolerate, but when I tell her that I've had enough, she stops.Neither of us make major decissions without the other's input, and she is better about that then me, and understanding when I fail. Even though we are still a long time out from the wedding, we are finding our little nitches with each other, and what we each need to work on. That's all I can think of to say for now. Isaiah 66:2b; But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.
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 10/22/2008 11:00 pm |
This was my response on that blog. Well in some respects Steve I would have to agree with you but on others not. First of all, Yes, a dominant woman can ruin a marriage but for that matter so can a dominant male. In Ephesian 5 Paul says to submit to one another. All believers are to be in submission to each other. In other words in the service of. Women are to submit to their husbands as servants of the Lord but since everyone must submit to each other it is obviously reciprocal. The two becoming one flesh concept concerns intimacy. Christ and his church have intimacy in the Spirit like a man and his wife, analogically speaking. As far as submitting to one's husband even if he is wrong...that is soooo wrong anyway you look at it. Both biblically and ethically. Since God does not require us to submit to evil (which all sin is...a wrong is sin or an injustice) we do not need to submit to a wrong. For peace sake, sure, over look a fault but in ethical issues...NO WAY!!!! If a man is doing his job of loving the woman as Christ loved the church he will lay down his life FOR HER...SUBMISSION. Submission to what? To his wives and children's needs. (emotionally, spiritually, physically, economically, and socially) Being the servant of Christ, in modeling Christ who was a servant and washed the feet of his disciples. Man is the head in the sense of accountability for his role as provider, protector. It is not a place of high social status but rather a place of humility which will bring him honor in due time. The woman is the glory of the man. That means to bring him honor. She also has a place of accountability as nurturer and caregiver. These qualities are biological difference (proven by science) between man and women but much of the other aspects are socialized cultural factors. Tradition has placed man and women in gender roles not biblically sanctioned. They are culturally based with man wanting to put gender into categories to define them for reasons that are purely flesh related. Economic, social, political, and spiritual dominance. Very much the same concept as racism. Worth is placed on man made roles defined by man and for mans advantage. I am not advocating male emasculation but I am pointing out male and female equality based on the gospel of grace that says there is no difference between man and women...bond or free. All are one in Christ. ONE IS EQUALITY. Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. Isaiah 42:8 " I am the Lord; that is my name! And My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images."
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10/22/2008 11:11 pm |
God has been dealing with me on this very issue, and I'm not even married yet lol. But I do not want to get married and then have it all hit us. Couples should really deal with this issue before marriage. I haven't read that book. But I have read THE Book. I know I can be very strong willed if I don't watch it. And I am just gonna say that I do believe what the Holy Spirit wrote through Paul, and other writers of thw N.T. It is pretty clear to me. It doesn't mean I have to be like a door mat. It does mean however that I need to not follow the world's current view on marital roles. I think the high divorce rate is due mostly to christians falling into that way of thinking, and acting, instead of God's way for us. It's very hard not to fall into it. And our own sin nature of course kicks in with both sexes. Spiritualy, as Paul wrote, there is no longer, Jew nor Sythian, slave nor free man, male nor female, etc..., but those scriptures do not cancel out the scriptures that God gave us for living as husband and wife. The first one is in Genesis. God told us the problem we would encounter, and we are encountering it. I'm not even going to write it. Everyone knows it I am sure. I just know God is dealing with me about this, so thought I'd comment. Blessings and great topic, LLW "There is no pit so deep, that God's love is not deeper still" Corrie Tenboom
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10/22/2008 11:52 pm |
Keep in mind Steve that not all men are like you. Every person has their own uniqueness before God. You obviously have a care giving gift which is a Shepherd or pastor gifting. You do not have to be behind the pulpit to be a pastor. As much as I love some aspects of home life, I on the other hand am not very domestic. I like to cook, garden and can but am not very good at keeping my home looking immaculate. I am disorganized, and tend to have clutter about me. Just no gifting in that area. That is why I make all my kids work as a team to keep the house up. I do not wait on them. My boys cook and clean just like my girls did when they were home. So does that make you a girly guy and me a poor mother? No. I just have other areas of strengths is all. I teach my children the word of God and I teach them about life as my gifting is more in the area of teaching. Point I am making is that one cannot generalize about the roles of men and women. They are different and every marriage is different. The man may be quiet natured and soft spoken while the woman may be more assertive and demonstrates leadership roles. That is not what God is talking about when he says the husband is a head of the wife. Rather, just as Jesus is in submission to the Father whom he is equal to, woman is in submission to her husband. Submission does not mean lesser status or inferiority but rather a godly position. A position of nurturer. Women are not by nature individualistic like men. Women are way more social. Women have a different moral expression. They have a greater sense of social justice corporately. Men have a justice perspective more on an individualistic level, as in personal accountability. Godly spiritual headship always involves self sacrifice equality, self surrender, and servant hood. It is not a license for male dominance!!! God, in Christ, sacrificed by giving of Himself to become equal to man. True headship is being the servant. True submission is being the servant!  Isaiah 42:8 " I am the Lord; that is my name! And My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images."
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10/22/2008 11:58 pm |
Hi Steve; I got in here late. Been off the blogs for several months due to flooding in my area, and even since I've been back, I haven't been here on B.C. a lot. I have never read the book you mentioned. In trying to follow the posts, I'm not always totally sure who was saying what except for where names are used. If I'm understanding what I've read, you're holding more to the tradition, and ways specified in Scripture, and Kim seems to be somewhat resistant, if not even passively defensive of women having more authority. I'm inclined to agree more with you, and I suppose some women may feel I would take such a stance because I'm a man. But in fact it is because it is supported by Scripture. The Bible does indeed confirm that the man is the head of the household, (in the marriage), and it has been that way since the fall of man. Man has that headship position, wheither he wants it or not, wheither he is qualified or not, wheither he is walking it or not, and wheither his wife thinks he should have it or not. That is what Scripture tells us. Is it fair? Not always, but no place in the Bible does God tell us that life is fair. That said, how the husband leads is another matter. There are way too many men who abuse their position as head of household. Yes they are out there, and Kim may think it's her duty to point them out, but that of itself has nothing to do with the subject you have made this blog about. We are discussing strong willed women here. A strong willed woman who refues allow her husband to lead in the marriage can indeed, and usually will ruin a marriage, and yes an overbearing man can also do so, but again that is not what we are discussing here. This matter does hit home with me because my ex-wife is a very strong willed woman who went more then overboard, but I'll not use this blog to insult her. Strangely enough, my new fiancee is also a strong willed woman, although nothing at all like my ex-wife was. With my betrothed, I am seeing that a woman can be very strong, yet still submissive. She is very good about communicating herself, (sometimes a little too good ) yet she does so without forcing herself, or nagging.She is quick to tell me when I'm wrong,(just like all women are ) but then she leaves it for me to handle or not. Most of the time she is right.She has her times where she will complain and make a drama, I'll let her carry on as long as I can tolerate, but when I tell her that I've had enough, she stops.Neither of us make major decissions without the other's input, and she is better about that then me, and understanding when I fail. Even though we are still a long time out from the wedding, we are finding our little nitches with each other, and what we each need to work on. That's all I can think of to say for now. I also had a very strong willed man in my life. He ruined our relationship and our finances out of rebellion. Endless submission did nothing to correct his attitude, and my making right choices only spurred him on. Incidentally, my leaving the relationship has corrected his rebellion, but it really is too late for our marriage. In a situation like that, I agree the marriage is shot. The world fights women correcting men even if it would have created a very necessary balance, which is why I don't believe in hanging people with rules. My Christ, near and dear For Women Only - Christ and the Submission Law God Bless the Believer - Cult or Church
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10/23/2008 1:07 am |
This was my response on that blog. Well in some respects Steve I would have to agree with you but on others not. First of all, Yes, a dominant woman can ruin a marriage but for that matter so can a dominant male. In Ephesian 5 Paul says to submit to one another. All believers are to be in submission to each other. In other words in the service of. Women are to submit to their husbands as servants of the Lord but since everyone must submit to each other it is obviously reciprocal. The two becoming one flesh concept concerns intimacy. Christ and his church have intimacy in the Spirit like a man and his wife, analogically speaking. As far as submitting to one's husband even if he is wrong...that is soooo wrong anyway you look at it. Both biblically and ethically. Since God does not require us to submit to evil (which all sin is...a wrong is sin or an injustice) we do not need to submit to a wrong. For peace sake, sure, over look a fault but in ethical issues...NO WAY!!!! If a man is doing his job of loving the woman as Christ loved the church he will lay down his life FOR HER...SUBMISSION. Submission to what? To his wives and children's needs. (emotionally, spiritually, physically, economically, and socially) Being the servant of Christ, in modeling Christ who was a servant and washed the feet of his disciples. Man is the head in the sense of accountability for his role as provider, protector. It is not a place of high social status but rather a place of humility which will bring him honor in due time. The woman is the glory of the man. That means to bring him honor. She also has a place of accountability as nurturer and caregiver. These qualities are biological difference (proven by science) between man and women but much of the other aspects are socialized cultural factors. Tradition has placed man and women in gender roles not biblically sanctioned. They are culturally based with man wanting to put gender into categories to define them for reasons that are purely flesh related. Economic, social, political, and spiritual dominance. Very much the same concept as racism. Worth is placed on man made roles defined by man and for mans advantage. I am not advocating male emasculation but I am pointing out male and female equality based on the gospel of grace that says there is no difference between man and women...bond or free. All are one in Christ. ONE IS EQUALITY. Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
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10/23/2008 2:14 am |
Actually, we all have different personality traits that have the potential to take us out of the order of G-d. Being a strong willed women myself is challanging in a relationship but that does not mean I wish to take over and head a relationship, to the contrary, I do not wish to be in control and gladly handed over the reigns. Unfortunately, you find soft and weak willed women using manupilation to be in control. The order of G-d is vital to the success of any relationship but it is only a small part of the balance to have a healthy relationship. When the Lord's love, peace and harmony prevails, you know you are on the right track. On our way home Quartzsite Arizona Hi and bye Going on a road trip Thanks giving ideas 
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10/23/2008 6:35 am |
A great post, brother! Thomas and Robin
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10/23/2008 7:24 am |
All this Christian baggage! it's awful, it makes me cringe, as a self professed strong-willed woman, mother of a strong-willed little girl, who rules the playground everwere she goes, I will never submit myself to the will of men, nor will I teach my daughter to do so, now you can go ahead and trow the bibile at me, tell me all bout what the apostle Paul said in Corin 1 and 2, qoute me the old testament as well, I've heard it all, but untill I hear the Holy Spirit tell me that I must submit to another as if he is "head" of my household (and I know HE won't), I will continue to live free of those chains place upon women by men of old. Life is an adventure.
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10/23/2008 8:09 am |
Yes, we are to submit to each other....not just one person submitting...it works both ways.  
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10/23/2008 8:58 am |
Hmmm I've never been able to refute..."Wives submit unto your husband in all things, as unto the Lord." Pretty serious and we need to understand what this means. Then it says Husbands, love your wives as Jesus loves His church....willing to give His life for her. Need to look it up, couldn't qute it right I know... but these are not the same instructions. Also women are to respect their husband, men are told to love their wives. Both different insructions. Just submitting one to another is good, but I can't leave out these other instructions. For one thing that isn't going to work when there is a BIG important decision, and you both do not agree at all on it, and can't. In all my life and having several men friends, I have heard over an over, I'd rather be respected than loved by my wife. I think it's love they feel when respected, but the respect is the necessary part there. Women have a need to be loved and cherished, and truly from her husbands heart. It has to be real. We are made differently. I'm still trying hard to understand this. But I still believe in ....when the two cannot agree and have talked it out and cannot agree on the matter of an important decision, the husband makes the decision. And the wife stands by him even if he is wrong. Ya don't get to say ..well I told ya so! And belittle him and his abilities to lead. Cause then the husband is going to say..ya know what!? You make all the decisions from now on!, and he will crawl inside his cave and that's it buddy! I've seen it. Then the women REALLy doesn't repect him. You can't make a decision on ANYthing!.. she will start saying. He'll do like my grandfather used to do, and turn down his hearing aid lol. Seriously, he did that. Cracked me up. But I have seen these kinds of couples. So if I get married, I'm going to try the ....tell my sweetheart what I think, and what it means to me, when decisions need to be made. And I won't make serious decisions without him either. And if he loves me he will care very much what a decision will mean to me. That's what I understand all the scriptures on instructions to husbands and wives. It aint easy tho. I am not a subservient type by a longshot. But I do want a godly marriage that is full of love. That's my 2 cents more lol. Blessings, Robin "There is no pit so deep, that God's love is not deeper still" Corrie Tenboom
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10/23/2008 11:33 am |
You know what, Steve? I too have been a strong-willed woman. And quite frankly? As I get older, I'm tired. Because my will in the past has often not been aligned with God's will, and I've gotten into scrapes because of that. I'd rather be a God-willed woman. I have prayed to be gracious and sweet. I wish my personality would change. And yet with the responsibility I have, I must be forthright when I interact. Somehow I think that if I had a good Christian significant other who would help me share the burden, that I would slack off. God bless!  - Pat -My Testimony ... Updated.
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10/23/2008 3:16 pm |
This was my response on that blog. Well in some respects Steve I would have to agree with you but on others not. First of all, Yes, a dominant woman can ruin a marriage but for that matter so can a dominant male. In Ephesian 5 Paul says to submit to one another. All believers are to be in submission to each other. In other words in the service of. Women are to submit to their husbands as servants of the Lord but since everyone must submit to each other it is obviously reciprocal. The two becoming one flesh concept concerns intimacy. Christ and his church have intimacy in the Spirit like a man and his wife, analogically speaking. As far as submitting to one's husband even if he is wrong...that is soooo wrong anyway you look at it. Both biblically and ethically. Since God does not require us to submit to evil (which all sin is...a wrong is sin or an injustice) we do not need to submit to a wrong. For peace sake, sure, over look a fault but in ethical issues...NO WAY!!!! If a man is doing his job of loving the woman as Christ loved the church he will lay down his life FOR HER...SUBMISSION. Submission to what? To his wives and children's needs. (emotionally, spiritually, physically, economically, and socially) Being the servant of Christ, in modeling Christ who was a servant and washed the feet of his disciples. Man is the head in the sense of accountability for his role as provider, protector. It is not a place of high social status but rather a place of humility which will bring him honor in due time. The woman is the glory of the man. That means to bring him honor. She also has a place of accountability as nurturer and caregiver. These qualities are biological difference (proven by science) between man and women but much of the other aspects are socialized cultural factors. Tradition has placed man and women in gender roles not biblically sanctioned. They are culturally based with man wanting to put gender into categories to define them for reasons that are purely flesh related. Economic, social, political, and spiritual dominance. Very much the same concept as racism. Worth is placed on man made roles defined by man and for mans advantage. I am not advocating male emasculation but I am pointing out male and female equality based on the gospel of grace that says there is no difference between man and women...bond or free. All are one in Christ. ONE IS EQUALITY. Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. Blessings, Pat.
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10/23/2008 7:42 pm |
The meaning of Strong-Willed: Having a determined will. tenaciously unwilling or marked by tenacious unwillingness to yield. See related words: Obstinate/stubborn/Un-regenerated I shared the definition ( and related words ) because Kim often uses definitions herself. Now look at what Independance said: " All this Christian baggage! it's awful, it makes me cringe, as a self professed strong-willed woman, mother of a strong-willed little girl, who rules the playground everwere she goes, I will never submit myself to the will of men, nor will I teach my daughter to do so, now you can go ahead and trow the bibile at me, tell me all bout what the apostle Paul said in Corin 1 and 2, qoute me the old testament as well, I've heard it all, but untill I hear the Holy Spirit tell me that I must submit to another as if he is "head" of my household (and I know HE won't), I will continue to live free of those chains place upon women by men of old." For years while I was married, I was trying to find out why my former wife acted the way she did. Years of marriage counseling didn't help, and it wasn't until I heard a message by Chuck Swindoll in his series titled, " Raising our daughters " that I understood what was going on with my wife. It was in the section " The Contentious Wife ", where Swindoll explained how the contentious mother, raises a contentious daughter, who in turn becomes a contentious wife. Swindoll explained there is nothing you can do with a contentious wife, no amount of counseling will help......God has to take care of her, and when he does, its not always pretty. Case in point. Did you pay attention to what independance said: " I will never submit myself to the will of men, nor will I teach my daughter to do so, now you can go ahead and trow the bibile at me.... These words sound so familiar, because My wife said almost the same thing over and over again. Her mother said the same things to her father. What my wife ( and her mother ) refused to understand, was that in the Christian home, the wife is commanded to submit to her husband... AS TO THE LORD. So, who is she really submitting to ? Not the man, but the Lord who made her husband her head. Like independance, they were so focused on what they wouldn't let a man do, that they couldn't see; how destructive such behavior is to the family, not to mention their blatant disobedience to God. There is another book, written by Dr. Debbie L. Cherry titled " The Strong Willed Wife/ Using your personality to honor God & your husband " No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/23/2008 7:48 pm |
Good Post Brother. Sounds like proper Biblical family order to me. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/23/2008 7:54 pm |
Hisglory77........Long time no see. Thanks for your comment, we practically agree on everything........ except the husband being the head of the house. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/23/2008 7:59 pm |
God has been dealing with me on this very issue, and I'm not even married yet lol. But I do not want to get married and then have it all hit us. Couples should really deal with this issue before marriage. I haven't read that book. But I have read THE Book. I know I can be very strong willed if I don't watch it. And I am just gonna say that I do believe what the Holy Spirit wrote through Paul, and other writers of thw N.T. It is pretty clear to me. It doesn't mean I have to be like a door mat. It does mean however that I need to not follow the world's current view on marital roles. I think the high divorce rate is due mostly to christians falling into that way of thinking, and acting, instead of God's way for us. It's very hard not to fall into it. And our own sin nature of course kicks in with both sexes. Spiritualy, as Paul wrote, there is no longer, Jew nor Sythian, slave nor free man, male nor female, etc..., but those scriptures do not cancel out the scriptures that God gave us for living as husband and wife. The first one is in Genesis. God told us the problem we would encounter, and we are encountering it. I'm not even going to write it. Everyone knows it I am sure. I just know God is dealing with me about this, so thought I'd comment. Blessings and great topic, LLW No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/23/2008 8:11 pm |
Longingformore....you said: "Incidentally, my leaving the relationship has corrected his rebellion, but it really is too late for our marriage. In a situation like that, I agree the marriage is shot. " Your leaving corrected his rebellion ? What kind of rebellion did he display ? No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/23/2008 8:15 pm |
AlanB2......the text in Eph. Paul isn't telling the husband to submit to his wife. Many people misunderstand the text. I'll explain how later. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/23/2008 8:24 pm |
A great post, brother! No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/23/2008 8:32 pm |
You know what, Steve? I too have been a strong-willed woman. And quite frankly? As I get older, I'm tired. Because my will in the past has often not been aligned with God's will, and I've gotten into scrapes because of that. I'd rather be a God-willed woman. I have prayed to be gracious and sweet. I wish my personality would change. And yet with the responsibility I have, I must be forthright when I interact. Somehow I think that if I had a good Christian significant other who would help me share the burden, that I would slack off. God bless! No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/23/2008 9:03 pm |
Strong willed is not synonymous with contention. They are different characteristics. Contention is sin. !!! Jeremiah's face was set like a flint to do the will of God. All Christians are called to yield to the Lord. It is not gender based. No where in the bible does God say to submit to evil! If that be so then blacks would still be in slavery...what does it mean then for servants to obey their masters?? There was a time when that was interpreted to mean that one race was superior to another because of the curse. Still is in many circles. Now we have science saying that Caucasians are smarter in retention tests than blacks. We both know it is because of social inequality and lack of education and viable resources. Culture based roles is what divides women and men. Contention combative, disputatious, litigious, quarrelsome, bellicose, hostile, militant, pugnacious, truculent, warlike, belligerent, argumentative Inclined to act in a hostile way,having or showing an eagerness to fight. Strong able, able-bodied, active, athletic, big, capable, durable, enduring, energetic, firm, fixed, forceful, forcible, hale, hard as nails, hardy, hearty, heavy, heavy-duty, in fine feather, mighty, muscular, reinforced, robust, rugged, secure, sinewy, solid, sound, stable, stalwart, stark, staunch, steady, stout, strapping, sturdy, substantial, tenacious, tough, unyielding, vigorous, well-built, well-founded, well made will aim, appetite, attitude, character, conviction, craving, decision, decisiveness, decree, design, desire, determination, discipline, discretion, disposition, fancy, feeling, hankering, heart’s desire, inclination, intention, liking, longing, mind, option, passion, pining, pleasure, power, preference, prerogative, purpose, resolution, resolve, self-control, self-discipline, self-restraint, temperament, urge, volition, willfulness, willpower, wish, wishes, yearning I have just explained what submission is and yes we are called to submit to each other. God is the head of Christ but they are equal. God is not the tyrant of Jesus or his superior but rather God the Father has a different role. In fact the bible says that God honors his own word above his name. He himself submits to his own laws. He does not change and nor can he change but in nature is submissive and yet he rules the universe. We as Christians are called to do that! Jesus said to ALL HIS PEOPLE, I give you authority over all the works of Satan...that includes inequality and bigotry and prejudice of race or gender! Isaiah 42:8 " I am the Lord; that is my name! And My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images."
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10/23/2008 9:43 pm |
I want to share something that someone shared at another website/forum I am a member of....: I heard a godly man once say that a wife was the reflection of her husband. He said that she was the reflection of the love that he poured into her, the more selfless and loving he was toward her the more she reflected that love. I can say that, as a woman or wife, the more my husband meets my needs, the more that I desire to be desireable (keeping trim and pretty for him in every way). My desire is that he is filled to the brim when he leaves the home, wanting nothing. I have done this during times when it has been a sacrifice and during times when it is easy. But, it is much easier to do when he fills me up emotionally. Back to the saying, I agree with the man who said that his wife was a reflection of him (perhaps, this is not always the case but I think it is more often the case). I must say I agree with this...if a man is loving his wife, what wife would NOT want to please him? It's back to that mutual submition again......in my opinion. Two excellent EXCELLENT books I HIGHLY recommend to ANYONE who wants to know more about MEN or WOMEN: "Wild at Heart" by John Eldredge "Captivating" by John and Staci Eldredge These two books are EXCELLENT and are companion books (they go together, like a husband and wife).... They discuss this issue and many more issues about men and women. GBY...
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10/24/2008 12:39 am |
I want to share something that someone shared at another website/forum I am a member of....: I heard a godly man once say that a wife was the reflection of her husband. He said that she was the reflection of the love that he poured into her, the more selfless and loving he was toward her the more she reflected that love. I can say that, as a woman or wife, the more my husband meets my needs, the more that I desire to be desireable (keeping trim and pretty for him in every way). My desire is that he is filled to the brim when he leaves the home, wanting nothing. I have done this during times when it has been a sacrifice and during times when it is easy. But, it is much easier to do when he fills me up emotionally. Back to the saying, I agree with the man who said that his wife was a reflection of him (perhaps, this is not always the case but I think it is more often the case). I must say I agree with this...if a man is loving his wife, what wife would NOT want to please him? It's back to that mutual submition again......in my opinion. Two excellent EXCELLENT books I HIGHLY recommend to ANYONE who wants to know more about MEN or WOMEN: "Wild at Heart" by John Eldredge "Captivating" by John and Staci Eldredge These two books are EXCELLENT and are companion books (they go together, like a husband and wife).... They discuss this issue and many more issues about men and women. GBY... 1st Corth. 11  b forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.Isaiah 66:2b; But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.
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10/24/2008 1:30 am |
The meaning of Strong-Willed: Having a determined will. tenaciously unwilling or marked by tenacious unwillingness to yield. See related words: Obstinate/stubborn/Un-regenerated I shared the definition ( and related words ) because Kim often uses definitions herself. Now look at what Independance said: " All this Christian baggage! it's awful, it makes me cringe, as a self professed strong-willed woman, mother of a strong-willed little girl, who rules the playground everwere she goes, I will never submit myself to the will of men, nor will I teach my daughter to do so, now you can go ahead and trow the bibile at me, tell me all bout what the apostle Paul said in Corin 1 and 2, qoute me the old testament as well, I've heard it all, but untill I hear the Holy Spirit tell me that I must submit to another as if he is "head" of my household (and I know HE won't), I will continue to live free of those chains place upon women by men of old." For years while I was married, I was trying to find out why my former wife acted the way she did. Years of marriage counseling didn't help, and it wasn't until I heard a message by Chuck Swindoll in his series titled, " Raising our daughters " that I understood what was going on with my wife. It was in the section " The Contentious Wife ", where Swindoll explained how the contentious mother, raises a contentious daughter, who in turn becomes a contentious wife. Swindoll explained there is nothing you can do with a contentious wife, no amount of counseling will help......God has to take care of her, and when he does, its not always pretty. Case in point. Did you pay attention to what independance said: " I will never submit myself to the will of men, nor will I teach my daughter to do so, now you can go ahead and trow the bibile at me.... These words sound so familiar, because My wife said almost the same thing over and over again. Her mother said the same things to her father. What my wife ( and her mother ) refused to understand, was that in the Christian home, the wife is commanded to submit to her husband... AS TO THE LORD. So, who is she really submitting to ? Not the man, but the Lord who made her husband her head. Like independance, they were so focused on what they wouldn't let a man do, that they couldn't see; how destructive such behavior is to the family, not to mention their blatant disobedience to God. There is another book, written by Dr. Debbie L. Cherry titled " The Strong Willed Wife/ Using your personality to honor God & your husband " Proverbs 21:9 It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house. I too had a contentious wife, and she was exactly like independance, and your quote from Chuck Swindoll. "I will never submit myself to the will of men, nor will I teach my daughter to do so." " there is nothing you can do with a contentious wife, no amount of counseling will help......God has to take care of her, and when he does, its not always pretty." He hasn't done it yet, and I pray that when he does, he will be gentle with her. Likewise, we can pray the same for independance. " but untill I hear the Holy Spirit tell me that I must submit to another as if he is "head" of my household (and I know HE won't)," Independence, the Holy Spirit speaks to us through his written Word. 2nd Pet. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. Independence, the Holy Spirit has already spoken on this matter. Why should you receive a special visit? His Word is very clear. James 4:6b Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. "I will continue to live free of those chains place upon women by men of old." Got news for you sweety. Men of old didn't place those chains as you call them on women. God did. Gen. 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. You sound sooo much like my ex-wife. Perhaps you'd like to schedule yourself an appointment with the All Mighty so that you can tell him how he should be running the universe. Isaiah 66:2b; But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.
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10/24/2008 1:31 am |
I gotta say Mom T that I only feel that way about Jesus. Sounds like worship to me. I have only that kind of love for him. If I get married it will be purely on a peer basis, fulfilling the will of my God by loving my husband and serving him together as one unit. Isaiah 42:8 " I am the Lord; that is my name! And My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images."
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10/24/2008 4:11 pm |
I am responding to Sweethoney's comment about Jesus' submission to the Father.... My understanding of scripture is that Jesus "lowered" Himself and took on being a man. On earth He was fully God, and fully man. He ALWAYS said He was in subjection to the Father. He said He didn't speak or do one thing that was not what the Father told him to say or do. He prayed Your Will Father, not mine. He had a seperate will. He could have chosen to disobey then. In the flesh (fully man) he was even lower than the angels, so was lower than the Father (in station), while at the same time being God. He submitted to the will of the Father. I don't claim to fully understand the triune God we serve, (I don't think we can fully) but I believe Jesus submited to the Father. It's all through the N.T. The Father is Head of Christ, tho they are equal. My point is that women, being equal with men, are commanded to submit to their husbands "in everything." Example: If it's a husband's will to move, and the wife doesn't want to, but he says we have to. (btw God works through the head of the Husband and wife... The husband is more responsible in God's sight for failures, that started with Adam and eve too), then bottom line after all the discussion, the wife has to submit and move with her husband. He may have even heard God wrong. It may all be a mess and him say he was wrong. But it is not a sin to make a mistake. It is still right to have submitted to the husband. It is rebellion against God to not submit. ..whoa I will get flack for that...but it is true...here's a scripure on wives... even... yes here it comes...OBEYING their husbands! Aaaaaa! lol... Ok, 1 Pe. 3:5 ...For in this manner in the old time the holy women also WHO TRUSTED IN GOD, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: vs 6 Even as Sara OBEYED Abraham, calling him Lord: whose daughers ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with an amazement. Then he gives men instruction on living with their wives in knowledge, and honoring them as the weaker vessel. I have remained unmarried for 7 yrs because I tried to be this kind of wife and we both failed. We both did. I munipulated, he lorded it over me. Or lied and hid things. The pastor corrected him on trying to get me to sell my Moble home and 3 and a half acres of land. All I had when I got married. Our pastor said, "If my wife didn't want to sell our home I wouldn't." I guess that was him living according to knowledge with his wife. That pastor also taught me not to say things (win without a word). He said to me once "Robin, there are times things do not really need to be said." I knew what he meant. Stop belittling or saying I told you so. That's all for now. I am enjying this study discussion. Oh and I do agee that if a husband is asking you to do something that is evil, or unscriptural, then NO she shouldn't obey. Then she should "obey God rather than man." "There is no pit so deep, that God's love is not deeper still" Corrie Tenboom
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10/24/2008 4:34 pm |
One more thing. It might be a sin ( I may have mispoken before on that) for the husband if he made a mistake, thinking he heard God, made a decision, and it was wrong. But it is not for the wife to decide before hand if the husband is wrong or right in the final decision, and therefore not submit. After they discuss the issue, she states all her concerns, and what she thinks is the right decision, unless it's unscriptural, she should submit to his final decision. Sarah didn't, and look what it got us!!! On anther subject...just a little rabbit to chase... And still God forgave her, and those scriptures of her example are given us. I just thought of that! God is so good. She is called one of the "Holy women, also who trusted in God".... We are holy when we submit to our husbands, because we are submitting to God when we do. It is His set arrangement in our fallen state. We are new creatures, but we still live in "the fall" or death would not still be with us. So these "Men of old" as Independence brought out, and these "Holy women of old" as Peter wrote about by the Holy Spirit are our examples.  Blessings to all"There is no pit so deep, that God's love is not deeper still" Corrie Tenboom
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10/25/2008 2:20 am |
The Father is Head of Christ, tho they are equal. My point is that women, being equal with men, are commanded to submit to their husbands "in everything." First of all we must look at scripture in its full context. In everything???? In evil? In abuse? (Can be mental and physical) in stealing,lying,cheating, pornography? Many men do these things. No. If the man does not love his wife as Christ loved the church and laid down his life for it , a woman is under no obligation to submit to any of that!!!! The marriage relationship is about submitting to one another in the fear of God. the bible says that...IN THE FEAR OF GOD!!!! Isaiah 42:8 " I am the Lord; that is my name! And My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images."
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10/25/2008 3:24 am |
Yes, in "everything" means in everything. I already covered "If it is evil, or sin, of course no." But nowhere does the bible say that "If your husband is loving you like Jesus loved the church, then submit to him." Or visa versa. Same for the husband. You both try 100% all the time, every day. You don't decide when you're going to, or not, based on the other's behavior. You will not find that in scripture. Love does not keep account of injury. 1 Co. ch. 13 explains what love is. What love does. It covers a multitude of sins also. How could you "win an unbelieving spouse without a word?" By obeying the Word yourself. By living a Holy life before them. By loving them like Jesus. One of the main things Jesus taught was, "love even when you are not being loved." That is what makes people see Jesus in you. And then they want Him too. It's all, or nothing. If the wife is not submitting, the husband should not withold loving her like Christ loves the church, should he? It works both ways. Just think about it. "There is no pit so deep, that God's love is not deeper still" Corrie Tenboom
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10/25/2008 7:54 am |
The Father is Head of Christ, tho they are equal. My point is that women, being equal with men, are commanded to submit to their husbands "in everything." First of all we must look at scripture in its full context. In everything???? In evil? In abuse? (Can be mental and physical) in stealing,lying,cheating, pornography? Many men do these things. No. If the man does not love his wife as Christ loved the church and laid down his life for it , a woman is under no obligation to submit to any of that!!!! The marriage relationship is about submitting to one another in the fear of God. the bible says that...IN THE FEAR OF GOD!!!! Kim, you said: " No. If the man does not love his wife as Christ loved the church and laid down his life for it , a woman is under no obligation to submit to any of that!!!! " Kim, do you think an unbelieving husband is going to love his wife like Christ loved the church ? No!!! But the believing wife is still commanded, to submit to her unbelieving husband. Lots of women use that excuse; not to submit to their husbands, even when the man is loving her as Christ loved the church. My former wife used that one on me, even though I was doing everything I could for her. She believed she could go over my head. Thats one of the problems, with a strong-willed woman; who isn't submitted to God. Surly, if the husband asked his wife to do something ( that she knows ) is evil; then she has to gently tell her husband, " I can't do that ", or " The Lord wouldn't approve of that ". Years ago I knew a Christian couple, who met in a Christian Bible College. They had two young children, and seemed to be happily married. One day out of the clear blue sky, the husband became a Muslim. The next thing you know, he told his wife she had to move with him, into a Muslim community; with his other wife. She flat out told him, that he was wrong, and that Christ didn't approve of what he had done. She remained respectful of her husband, but didn't go alone with what he was demanding. Now, in a case like that, the Christian wife isn't expected to go along with; or submit to such foolishness. But thats an extreme case, a strong-will wife ( if she isn't submitted to the Lord ) tries to take the lead in everything ( rather than summit in everything ). She wants to be the boss, and she's not submitting to her husband, no matter what !! Good or bad. The proper christian attitude for the wife is this: " Like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear. " No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/25/2008 10:56 am |
One more thing. It might be a sin ( I may have mispoken before on that) for the husband if he made a mistake, thinking he heard God, made a decision, and it was wrong. But it is not for the wife to decide before hand if the husband is wrong or right in the final decision, and therefore not submit. After they discuss the issue, she states all her concerns, and what she thinks is the right decision, unless it's unscriptural, she should submit to his final decision. Sarah didn't, and look what it got us!!! On anther subject...just a little rabbit to chase... And still God forgave her, and those scriptures of her example are given us. I just thought of that! God is so good. She is called one of the "Holy women, also who trusted in God".... We are holy when we submit to our husbands, because we are submitting to God when we do. It is His set arrangement in our fallen state. We are new creatures, but we still live in "the fall" or death would not still be with us. So these "Men of old" as Independence brought out, and these "Holy women of old" as Peter wrote about by the Holy Spirit are our examples. Blessings to allUngodly men misuse God's word to lord themselves over women to have the freedom to make any choice they want. The woman is expected to remain silent while her husband takes both himself, her and their children into error and sometimes into destruction. God knows THIS isn't healthy, and it's not His instruction nor is it His will. God's grace is bigger than any argument in the law. I notice God's word also says that women aren't allowed to speak in church, yet many women that do speak in church dismiss the rule because their man has position in the church, so they claim it's okay. So I guess it means you can overrule God's word as long as your husband says so, but how dare you if your husband thumps on you instead. God long ago lifted the curse on the woman. We are also told that women are to wear dresses and to have their heads covered. I see you're wearing jeans. Do you also wear a hat when you pray? Because these too are God's instructions, and I'm wondering which of His instructions you're willing to ignore to suit your lifestyle. God's word also says there is only one reason which He accepts for divorce, and that being fornication. How many of us, say 30% of our population, has taken grace from that rule. I say if you can't keep all the laws, then accept that others can't either, and I'm not referring to the 10 commandments - I'm referring to biblical instruction. Since when does God's written instruction become laws to us, and yet we're released from the 10 commandments that He actually gave as laws. Those too were given for our own good, yet God already told us we can't keep them, nor are we in Christ if we do. You have your walk which isn't in line with that of the strong willed woman. Not everyone has the same situation, so God won't give everyone the same remedy. I like your integrity, but your experience is apparently what God is trying to mold in you concerning your current relationship. Please don't put it on us. My Christ, near and dear For Women Only - Christ and the Submission Law God Bless the Believer - Cult or Church
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10/25/2008 1:34 pm |
The meaning of Strong-Willed: Having a determined will. tenaciously unwilling or marked by tenacious unwillingness to yield. See related words: Obstinate/stubborn/Un-regenerated I shared the definition ( and related words ) because Kim often uses definitions herself. Now look at what Independance said: " All this Christian baggage! it's awful, it makes me cringe, as a self professed strong-willed woman, mother of a strong-willed little girl, who rules the playground everwere she goes, I will never submit myself to the will of men, nor will I teach my daughter to do so, now you can go ahead and trow the bibile at me, tell me all bout what the apostle Paul said in Corin 1 and 2, qoute me the old testament as well, I've heard it all, but untill I hear the Holy Spirit tell me that I must submit to another as if he is "head" of my household (and I know HE won't), I will continue to live free of those chains place upon women by men of old." For years while I was married, I was trying to find out why my former wife acted the way she did. Years of marriage counseling didn't help, and it wasn't until I heard a message by Chuck Swindoll in his series titled, " Raising our daughters " that I understood what was going on with my wife. It was in the section " The Contentious Wife ", where Swindoll explained how the contentious mother, raises a contentious daughter, who in turn becomes a contentious wife. Swindoll explained there is nothing you can do with a contentious wife, no amount of counseling will help......God has to take care of her, and when he does, its not always pretty. Case in point. Did you pay attention to what independance said: " I will never submit myself to the will of men, nor will I teach my daughter to do so, now you can go ahead and trow the bibile at me.... These words sound so familiar, because My wife said almost the same thing over and over again. Her mother said the same things to her father. What my wife ( and her mother ) refused to understand, was that in the Christian home, the wife is commanded to submit to her husband... AS TO THE LORD. So, who is she really submitting to ? Not the man, but the Lord who made her husband her head. Like independance, they were so focused on what they wouldn't let a man do, that they couldn't see; how destructive such behavior is to the family, not to mention their blatant disobedience to God. There is another book, written by Dr. Debbie L. Cherry titled " The Strong Willed Wife/ Using your personality to honor God & your husband " I am sorry to hear that you had problems with your ex-wife because of her strong will. I find that there is a difference between a strong will and the stubbornness that a lot of people often mistake with strong will, of course this strong will trait is celebrated in males not in females in the conservative Christian circles, it is not in the secular world, with the election season in full force, I wonder if Christians can see a strong will woman as president of this country? Maybe, I think,, if during elections she declares in public that she submits to her husband to plase and gain the vote of conservative Christians nationwide,sorry for going on like this. Hey great quote on what I said, makes me feel special that you took the time to read my comment Life is an adventure.
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10/25/2008 2:03 pm |
If my husband goes off his rocker one day and decides that we are all moving to Tuktiuktuk and he is going to go seal hunting for his new career and we all have to go with him. I must give up my job and go skin seals for him while my kids play in the snow and rub noses with the Inuit....forget it!!  Point I am making? Use your God given brains people!!! You want to submit to evil or stupidity...go ahead...no way im going ship wrek with that nonsence. My lord Jesus is my master and I will obey him over any man.(his word) Sola scriptura!!! If the husband wants me to perform perverions on him should I do it?? EVERYTHING????? IF MY HUSBAND TELLS ME NOT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL WHEN GOD TOLD ME TO. | ||
