 | Blogs > godlycook > WHAT IS MAN'S CHIEF END ? > HE MUST JUMP TOO |
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godlycook
10/1/2008 8:45 pmLast Read: |
While I slept last light, the Lord shared an interesting point with me. It had to do with the false notion; some have of being able to jump, out of the hands of Jesus and His Father. It is often stated in connection with the following text: " I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. " John 10:28 -30 The text is then followed by these words: " But you can jump out. " Heres what the Lord shared with me. If and when a person jumps from My Son's Hand, does My Son jump too ? Why didn't I think of that ? If anyone could jump out ( actually you can't ), the Son would join him ( or her ) as they jumped ( or would He jump before you jumped, no maybe He'd jump after you jumped....whatever ! ). Why is that ( i.e. why would He have to jump too ) ? Because the Son is in you ( He actually lives in your body, he takes up residence ), thats why Paul said, " Christ in you the hope of glory. " So, if anyone can jump out of His hand they'd have to take Jesus with them. But of course we all know, that you can't jump out of something ; you were never in, to begin with. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7 |
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10/1/2008 9:39 pm |
Amen! The "no one" can snatch them out of My hand" includes ourselves, afterall we are someone. "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principlaities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, "nor any created thing", shall be able to seperate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord". Rom 8:38-39 And you and I are created things. Shalom
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10/1/2008 9:50 pm |
. . .
. . . Without Absolute Truth, there are only lies disguised as truth, if you know not the Absolute Truth and it is NOT within you, you will embrace a relative truth that fits your eternity, that is presently before you. Continue to be faithful, deliverance is near, obedience must be seen, be an unconditional blessing as He continues to bless you. This time is short, serve Him well, serving all. Without exception. Know? Yes? ? .
Meow?  .
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10/2/2008 2:41 am |
WHAT HAPPENED TO THESE PEOPLE? Matthew 7: 21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness. 1Jn:2:4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Does this mean that every single "Christian" that claims that he or she is "safe in God's hands" has love and will be in heaven? 1Jn:3: 14: We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 15: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. The Devil is good at quoting Scripture, but he usually tells half the truth, as in when he told Jesus to jump off the building and it is written that the Angels of God would catch Him. This reminds me of the same thing... as in... "dont worry, no matter what you do, God has ahold of you". I would say "It is also written, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" There ae a whole lot of Christians out there who are deceiving themselves and have other Christians there helping them along the way to keep on deceiving themselves. You have to read THE ENTIRE BIBLE. Jesus will hold you in His hand, YES... but there are CONDITIONS in the Bible all over the place and one is foolish to ignore them. You so-called 'FAITH' then becomes merely PRESUMPTION. Jms:1: 21: Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. 22: But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. Jesus is my Saviour, I shall not be moved.
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10/2/2008 2:46 am |
HERE IS WHAT YOU ARE MISSING... WE MUST CHOOSE TO ABIDE IN CHRIST.. meaning STAYING with Christ 1Jn:2:28: And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. How do we show that we "abide" in Him? Note that the verses below explain how to tell whether or not you are "abiding" in Jesus and He in you: 1Jn:3:6: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. "If a man love Me," Christ said, "he will keep My words; and My Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." John 14:23. To "abide" in Christ, you must "die to self" and no longer walk in the flesh... Jn:12:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. (that would be the fruits of the Spirit) 1Jn:3:14: We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 1Jn:2:10: He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 1Jn:3:24: And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 1Jn:2:6: He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. You do not see any "just believe" there do you? What we hear about abiding in Christ is... he who sinneth not, he who keeps My words, he who dies to self, he who loves the brethren, he who keeps the commandments, he who walks as Jesus walked... it is THEY who are abiding in Christ! Remember, John clearly said that ONLY if you abide in Him, will you have confidence at Jesus' second coming! The wicked shall be consumed with the glory of His brightness. 1Jn:2:28: And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 2Thes:2:8: "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." Sin and all those who cling to sin will be consumed! The wicked, they who choose to cling to their sins and not let them go, will be heading for the hills and begging the mountains to fall on them to shield them from Christ! They will NOT have confidence. And why? ...obviously because they were NOT abiding in Him! Luke 23:27-30: "And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him. But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us." Isaiah 2:16-21: "And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. And the idols he shall utterly abolish. And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth." You are either going to get rid of your sins and your idols NOW or else you will do it LATER, when it is too late! And if you expect to have confidence before God in that day, you MUST abide in Jesus... ALONE! Let me put this in very simple terms. You MUST cling to Jesus alone for merit, for salvation. You MUST not trust to your own works for salvation. Anything you offer to God in the way of good works to gain salvation will be rejected as "filthy rags". Period! HOWEVER, you CANNOT cling to Jesus with one hand and cling to sin with the other! Drop it! Cling to Jesus with BOTH HANDS! Let His Holy Spirit dwell in you, abide in you and you abide in Him... CLING TO HIM... and the fruits of the Spirit (love, etc) will appear... NOT SIN! 1Jn:3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOETH righteousness IS righteous, even as he is righteous. 1Jn:3:18: My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. Brothers and Sisters, LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU! Do not allow anybody to convince you that works have nothing to do with your salvation. This is a terrible deception, and this "works do not matter" lie comes from Satan himself. I John 3:14,15: We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him Jesus is my Saviour, I shall not be moved.
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10/2/2008 2:54 am |
Well let me give you a summary. There would be NO REASON WHATEVER for John to have told Christians that they must TAKE CARE to ABIDE in Jesus, meaning STAY WITH Jesus... in order that they will have confidence when Jesus comes and not be ashamed, if there was no possibility of them LEAVING Him. Let's have common sense here: 1 John 2 28: And now, little children, ABIDE IN HIM; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29: If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that DOETH righteousness is born of him. And people can CLAIM alot of things, such as that they "belong to Jesus and are born of Him so they cant be removed from His hand"... etc and so forth, but the Bible CLEARLY teaches (see verses above) that ONLY THEY THAT DO RIGHTEOUSNESS are truly born of Him. And we are warned not to buy into the deception that says otherwise. Jesus is my Saviour, I shall not be moved.
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10/2/2008 3:18 am |
Even Jesus Himself would not dare to presume upon God's mercy, and when the Devil told Him jump off the building because it is written that the Angels would catch you, He replied, yes but it is also written Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God... meaning some Christians have PRESUMPTION rather than true Faith. They presume upon God's mercy.. 1Cor:10:12: Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. Besides all that, there are just MULTITUDES of Scriptures that do not back up this idea that we cannot be lost. Rv:2:4: Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5: Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. that means God would leave them in darkness. If they had a first love experience then left it, OBVIOUSLY they can take themselves out of God's hands. and if you can have your name BLOTTED OUT of the Book of Life then OBVIOUSLY you can be at one time in the Book of Life then be removed from it. and I mean, there are just TONS of verses like this... Rv:3:5: He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Hello? we cant leave? Rv:2:4: Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Jesus is my Saviour, I shall not be moved.
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10/2/2008 4:01 am |
then please explain the following scriptures:Heb.10:26-31 and Rev.3:5 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. what does the writer mean when he says:He that overcometh? what does he mean when he says  will not blot out your name from the BOOK OF LIFE? who is the I that he refers to? Blot A stain or reproach Job 31  Pr 9 To blot out sin is to forgive it Ps 51:1,9 Isa 44:22 Ac 3:19 Christ's blotting out the handwriting of ordinances was his fulfilling the law in our behalf Col 2:14In Hebrews what does the writer mean when he writes: if we sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins?
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10/2/2008 4:07 am |
The first smiley there is an ....I and the other smileys are scripture job 31 verse 7 and Prov.9 verse 7
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10/2/2008 6:13 am |
Implicit in the "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine is the insidious presumption that once grace has been invoked by receiving the gift of God’s salvation by faith through repentance, obedience to that newly installed "Lord", Jesus Christ, is somehow "optional." Hypothetically at least, one can receive Christ as "Savior" - by the "sincere" recitation of some glib, extrabiblical sinner's prayer formula - and then never apply a lick of obedience to God’s Word, but never needs to fear any consequence more compelling than perhaps some temporal chastisement or, at worst, a "downsizing" of their eternal, heavenly rewards. "Oh, but then they were never really saved!" is the OSAS outcry. Many securists actually teach that it is possible for born-again Christians to "backslide" to a place of utter - and even permanent - depravity, but that they can never actually "fall away" like it warns against in the scriptures, because if they "fall away" then they were never really "attached" to begin with! To explain this line of reasoning within the context of our previous illustration, it is impossible for a pregnant woman to ever have a "miscarriage", because if she has a miscarriage, then she obviously was never really "pregnant." Does this logic escape you? You are not alone; it has, mercifully, escaped countless godly laypeople as well as many astute Bible scholars over the generations. It has escaped an overwhelming segment of - for all its other doctrinal imperfection and error - the contemporary Christian community. The apostle Paul would contend with them. He noted that he kept his flesh under subjection, "lest, after I have taught others, I myself should become a reprobate." Paul recognized that obedience to God’s word is a choice the believer must make; we did not suddenly become spiritual "zombies" when we were born again. We were not stripped of the "free will" we had before we came to Christ. Herein lies the other glaring difficulty with OSAS: terms contained in sober warnings to Christians like "reprobate", "apostasy", "cut off", "falling away", "perishing", "unless you believed in vain", "rejected", "fallen from grace", "cast into outer darkness", "assigned a place with unbelievers", and even "terrifying expectation of judgment", have been conveniently redefined to mean something far more innocuous than the uninitiated, impressionable reader might infer. Jesus is my Saviour, I shall not be moved.
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10/2/2008 8:19 am |
Claudia you said: " Hypothetically at least, one can receive Christ as "Savior" - by the "sincere" recitation of some glib, extrabiblical sinner's prayer formula - and then never apply a lick of obedience to God’s Word, but never needs to fear any consequence more compelling than perhaps some temporal chastisement or, at worst, a "downsizing" of their eternal, heavenly rewards. " What you described above is the opposite error of what you believe. Its called Anti-nomianism ( against the law ), and all who espouse this view, believe they can live any way they want ( after supposedly coming to Christ ), they have no concern for God's judgment concerning their continued life of sin. This belief is slaying its millions, because there was never a conversion, they just repeated a prayer and thought that made them safe. True conversion leads to a changed life ( not a life of sin ) and although the Christian does not live a perfectly sinless ( only Christ is perfect ); he ( or she ) does not practice sin, because they have been changed, and the indwelling Holy Spirit produces the fruit which is pleasing to God. I've explained this to you several times, yet you insist on trying to peddle your legalistic views, as if to correct my position. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/2/2008 9:35 am |
{{{YAWN...}}} - Pat -God's Freebies !! Please pray for my kitty Blackness. My sister called me last night.
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10/2/2008 1:33 pm |
You teach wrongly, Steve, that is what she's trying to correct. You say belief is all you have to have to be saved, and as she SHOWED in the New Testament, Christ, John, and even Paul said that you can LOSE the race, you can fall back, your name can be blotted out, which means it WAS THERE. YOU WERE SAVED, THEN YOUR NAME WAS BLOTTED OUT. Use your head man! You teach people not to repent. Might as well be teaching them how to sin while you're at it. Claudia, shake the dust from your sandals, move on to the next village. This one is mired in complacency, too busy having their ears tickled. -Danny -Danny
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10/2/2008 7:30 pm |
You teach wrongly, Steve, that is what she's trying to correct. You say belief is all you have to have to be saved, and as she SHOWED in the New Testament, Christ, John, and even Paul said that you can LOSE the race, you can fall back, your name can be blotted out, which means it WAS THERE. YOU WERE SAVED, THEN YOUR NAME WAS BLOTTED OUT. Use your head man! You teach people not to repent. Might as well be teaching them how to sin while you're at it. Claudia, shake the dust from your sandals, move on to the next village. This one is mired in complacency, too busy having their ears tickled. -Danny -Danny No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/2/2008 7:34 pm |
Does anyone care to answer the question ? DOES JESUS JUMP TOO ? No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/2/2008 7:38 pm |
{{{YAWN...}}} Or does this bore you ? If it does bore you. Why ? No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/2/2008 8:32 pm |
then please explain the following scriptures:Heb.10:26-31 and Rev.3:5 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. what does the writer mean when he says:He that overcometh? what does he mean when he says will not blot out your name from the BOOK OF LIFE? who is the I that he refers to? Blot A stain or reproach Job 31 Pr 9 To blot out sin is to forgive it Ps 51:1,9 Isa 44:22 Ac 3:19 Christ's blotting out the handwriting of ordinances was his fulfilling the law in our behalf Col 2:14In Hebrews what does the writer mean when he writes: if we sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins? Without going into a long dissertation, here's something for you to consider.In relation to Heb. 10:26. " But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved. "Heb. 10:39 If the writers intention was to show that believers can be lost ( 10:26-27 ), why is it that just a few sentences later does he say, " But we are not of those....." context is so important, we must follow the writers thought; not cut it off. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/2/2008 11:29 pm |
Danny....... Let me get this straight. Claudia is a member of one of the five MAJOR CULTS. She is on equal footing with the so-called Jehovah's Witnesses, The Mormons, and Christian Science. Yet you are trying to tell me that she's correct. You are agreeing with a member; of a false religion........... What does that tell us about you ? Of course, you ARE aware that the SDA can sue you for calling them a cult, as can the others (not that I don't agree with you about them, but still...) You have the sin of Pride, Steve. Anyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do is unsaved and part of a cult, and blah blah blah. Everyone else's church and doctrine is wrong, but yours. Pick the log out of YOUR eye before you point out the speck of dust in anyone else's eyes.... -Danny
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 10/3/2008 11:58 am |
Does anyone care to answer the question ? DOES JESUS JUMP TOO ?  but never mind}. But since I think I was the first to use the "jumping out" reference, let me clarify something about my position on this:I would not use the John 10 v 28-30 passage that you quote as my PRIMARY argument for the possibility of falling away from the faith. The clearest passage to me seems to be Hebrews 10 v 26-31 as quoted above by crucified777 {I also regard Paul naming THREE BELIEVERS in his letters to Timothy who did precisely that as fairly convincing evidence}. When someone responds to the Hebrews passage with "but Jesus said no-one shall snatch them out of my hand" it is AT THAT POINT that I would simply say that he has NOT EXCLUDED the possibility of us jumping out {or of him throwing us out either}. OK, to your question. I simply think we are mixing our metaphors. I have never PHYSICALLY been in Jesus' hand, nor is he PHYSICALLY in my body {if I was cut open do you think anybody would be able to see him?} So if I DO jump out of his hand, then I must simultaneously BOOT HIM OUT of my life, and neither action is PHYSICAL {but no less real for that}. Therefore the answer is that NO, Jesus does NOT jump with me. If I jump, he stays put and lets me leave {with tears in his eyes of course}. No need to respond to this Steve. I already know you don't agree  Peter  "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth" 2 Timothy 2 v 15
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10/4/2008 10:04 pm |
OK, I give in. I'll post an answer to your question {which you won't agree with but never mind}. But since I think I was the first to use the "jumping out" reference, let me clarify something about my position on this:I would not use the John 10 v 28-30 passage that you quote as my PRIMARY argument for the possibility of falling away from the faith. The clearest passage to me seems to be Hebrews 10 v 26-31 as quoted above by crucified777 {I also regard Paul naming THREE BELIEVERS in his letters to Timothy who did precisely that as fairly convincing evidence}. When someone responds to the Hebrews passage with "but Jesus said no-one shall snatch them out of my hand" it is AT THAT POINT that I would simply say that he has NOT EXCLUDED the possibility of us jumping out {or of him throwing us out either}. OK, to your question. I simply think we are mixing our metaphors. I have never PHYSICALLY been in Jesus' hand, nor is he PHYSICALLY in my body {if I was cut open do you think anybody would be able to see him?} So if I DO jump out of his hand, then I must simultaneously BOOT HIM OUT of my life, and neither action is PHYSICAL {but no less real for that}. Therefore the answer is that NO, Jesus does NOT jump with me. If I jump, he stays put and lets me leave {with tears in his eyes of course}. No need to respond to this Steve. I already know you don't agree Peter You really don't understand, and you're not the first here to use the " Jumping Out " phrase. The idea of being able to jump, slip, roll, fall or walk away from Jesus is a man made hypothesis. What those who hold to this view don't understand; is that the covenant promise of salvation through Christ, is a one way covenant. God is the one who initiates, and sees to completion, all that is necessary for our sanctification. We cannot break the covenant because; we are not its author nor finisher. The whole idea behind the one way covenant, is to keep man from messing it up; we tend to break covenants. So, God, who cannot lie, has given us to the Son; we are His. He paid for us, we belong to Him; He holds us ( by His power ) and won't let go. His love for us ( Christians ) compels us to stay, with Him. And His Love for for us ( Christians ) compels Him to stay with us. Its not a matter of us holding on to Jesus, or deciding if we want to leave Him. Where can we flee from His presence ? He abides in us and promises never to leave us. So, if we try to run ( which we don't ) He is there, if we try to jump ( which Christians don't ), He is there; if we start to fall, He catches us. He's always there, even if I think He's not. No, you can't get away from Jesus.......even if you tried. " And teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I will be with you always, to the very end of the age. " Matt. 28:20 " and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade-kept in heaven for you. "1 Pet. 1:4 I don't know where you get your doctrine......but its not from Christ. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/5/2008 5:46 am |
Who decided they're a cult, Steve? You and Dennis? When I google Christian Cults, the Adventists don't even come up. If they were one of the major ones, I'd think they'd be on top of the list. Of course, you ARE aware that the SDA can sue you for calling them a cult, as can the others (not that I don't agree with you about them, but still...) You have the sin of Pride, Steve. Anyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do is unsaved and part of a cult, and blah blah blah. Everyone else's church and doctrine is wrong, but yours. Pick the log out of YOUR eye before you point out the speck of dust in anyone else's eyes.... -Danny
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10/5/2008 6:09 am |
Who decided they're a cult, Steve? You and Dennis? When I google Christian Cults, the Adventists don't even come up. If they were one of the major ones, I'd think they'd be on top of the list. Of course, you ARE aware that the SDA can sue you for calling them a cult, as can the others (not that I don't agree with you about them, but still...) You have the sin of Pride, Steve. Anyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do is unsaved and part of a cult, and blah blah blah. Everyone else's church and doctrine is wrong, but yours. Pick the log out of YOUR eye before you point out the speck of dust in anyone else's eyes.... -Danny No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/5/2008 6:14 am |
Who decided they're a cult, Steve? You and Dennis? When I google Christian Cults, the Adventists don't even come up. If they were one of the major ones, I'd think they'd be on top of the list. Of course, you ARE aware that the SDA can sue you for calling them a cult, as can the others (not that I don't agree with you about them, but still...) You have the sin of Pride, Steve. Anyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do is unsaved and part of a cult, and blah blah blah. Everyone else's church and doctrine is wrong, but yours. Pick the log out of YOUR eye before you point out the speck of dust in anyone else's eyes.... -Danny No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/13/2008 1:59 pm |
godlycook comes with the authority of what God spoke to Him. "Heres what the Lord shared with me. If and when a person jumps from My Son's Hand, does My Son jump too?" Then he states that we can't jump out of His hand, and continues to argue this, when he just stated the Lord had said "if and when a person jumps from my Son's hand". My Christ, near and dear Who Leads on BigChurch For Women Only - Christ and the Submission Law God Bless the Believer - Cult or Church When You’re Tempted to Leave the Faith Finding the Road
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10/13/2008 2:14 pm |
Danny....... Let me get this straight. Claudia is a member of one of the five MAJOR CULTS. She is on equal footing with the so-called Jehovah's Witnesses, The Mormons, and Christian Science. Yet you are trying to tell me that she's correct. You are agreeing with a member; of a false religion........... What does that tell us about you ? My Christ, near and dear Who Leads on BigChurch For Women Only - Christ and the Submission Law God Bless the Believer - Cult or Church When You’re Tempted to Leave the Faith Finding the Road
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10/13/2008 2:42 pm |
Does anyone care to answer the question ? DOES JESUS JUMP TOO ? godlycook, if my spanking stick was only a little bit longer. You can't blindly argue one point in total disregard of the other verses in God's word. It's important that we trust a faithful God to keep us until the end, that we don't have to fear for our salvation. It's obvious you've never stepped outside of God, where you'd feel you HAD to correct your actions. DannyRay, thank you for keeping the balance here, in that you protect people from having a false sense of security, because God's word does warn against falling away, and it would be foolhardy to believe you could do anything without repercussion. Noah, as always, your unwavering belief is both secure and responsible, encompassing the truths of God's word, and I'm grateful that someone here can simply present truth. If we jump out of His hand, does Jesus jump too? God will never leave us nor forsake us, but if we choose to sin, we must be aware that God will not follow us into sin, for He will have no fellowship with sin. At the very least we would lose our fellowship, and if you can fall out of relationship with people, you can fall out of relationship with God. Would we lose our salvation? God forbid that we would so blindly argue in disobedience to any part of God's word, and take away both security in our faith and our own responsibility to the relationship. My Christ, near and dear Who Leads on BigChurch For Women Only - Christ and the Submission Law God Bless the Believer - Cult or Church When You’re Tempted to Leave the Faith Finding the Road
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10/13/2008 9:16 pm |
How did I almost miss this blog posted by our ever diligent godlycook? I can't believe someone can so insistently argue. Yes there are passages that say we can feel secure in our salvation. There are also passages that warn us against falling away. Prudence keeps us from arguing blindly either way. We must give proper weight to the entire bible. godlycook, if my spanking stick was only a little bit longer. You can't blindly argue one point in total disregard of the other verses in God's word. It's important that we trust a faithful God to keep us until the end, that we don't have to fear for our salvation. It's obvious you've never stepped outside of God, where you'd feel you HAD to correct your actions. DannyRay, thank you for keeping the balance here, in that you protect people from having a false sense of security, because God's word does warn against falling away, and it would be foolhardy to believe you could do anything without repercussion. Noah, as always, your unwavering belief is both secure and responsible, encompassing the truths of God's word, and I'm grateful that someone here can simply present truth. If we jump out of His hand, does Jesus jump too? God will never leave us nor forsake us, but if we choose to sin, we must be aware that God will not follow us into sin, for He will have no fellowship with sin. At the very least we would lose our fellowship, and if you can fall out of relationship with people, you can fall out of relationship with God. Would we lose our salvation? God forbid that we would so blindly argue in disobedience to any part of God's word, and take away both security in our faith and our own responsibility to the relationship. You have praised Pete and Danny for their answers, but neither of them correctly answered the question. Nor did you. They didn't bring balance to the equation ( as you suggest ) but they both deny the absolute power of God, as if man can overpower God. This is what pete said: " OK, to your question. I simply think we are mixing our metaphors. I have never PHYSICALLY been in Jesus' hand, nor is he PHYSICALLY in my body {if I was cut open do you think anybody would be able to see him?} So if I DO jump out of his hand, then I must simultaneously BOOT HIM OUT of my life, and neither action is PHYSICAL {but no less real for that}. Therefore the answer is that NO, Jesus does NOT jump with me. If I jump, he stays put and lets me leave {with tears in his eyes of course}." Pete thinks we are " simply " mixing metaphors, and stated that he has never PHYSICALLY been in Jesus' hand. Then he states that Jesus isn't PHYSICALLY in his body. He misses what actually happens to the believer, when we are placed into the body of Christ. Christ literally lives in the believer ( He has taken up permanent residence in us ), surly if someone were to cut me open; they wouldn't be able to PHYSICALLY see Jesus; because He is living in us ( true believers ) by His indwelling Holy Spirit. God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit. Peter's point is nonsensical, because Jesus actually lives within the believer......not physically but Spiritually. As for Pete's point about never PHYSICALLY being in Jesus' hand, here he is amiss once again. The term hand which Jesus uses in John 10:28 -30 is indeed a metaphor, and we must recognize what the metaphor represents, and in the text of John 10 the metaphor represents GODS POWER ( God the Son and God the Father ). If Pete wants to say he has never PHYSICALLY been in Jesus' hand, then he'd better hope he is figuratively in Jesus' hand ( held by His power ) or he's in big trouble.......really big trouble. As for Danny. He so confused that he agrees with and defends cult members. So much for him. You don't look so good yourself........if you think Pete and Danny are correct. No, you can't jump out of something you've never really been in. " They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. " If you jump........you where never in His hand to begin with. Wake up before its too late. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/13/2008 11:17 pm |
"Does Jesus jump too?". Of course not. As Peter stated, He doesn't physically have us, so He won't physically jump. He resides in us through the indwelling Holy Spirit. As I stated, God is faithful, but He is a Holy God, and He will not dwell in sin just because we choose sin. If we refuse to walk in Him, He will give us our old lives back, but I would caution that you'd be returned to a life without God, because you've made your choice between God and sin. If God did remain with you, He'd be speaking to you about leaving your sin. In short, Jesus will not jump into sin with you, for Christ, being God, is Holy. My Christ, near and dear Who Leads on BigChurch For Women Only - Christ and the Submission Law God Bless the Believer - Cult or Church When You’re Tempted to Leave the Faith Finding the Road
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10/14/2008 7:04 pm |
"Does Jesus jump too?". Of course not. As Peter stated, He doesn't physically have us, so He won't physically jump. He resides in us through the indwelling Holy Spirit. As I stated, God is faithful, but He is a Holy God, and He will not dwell in sin just because we choose sin. If we refuse to walk in Him, He will give us our old lives back, but I would caution that you'd be returned to a life without God, because you've made your choice between God and sin. If God did remain with you, He'd be speaking to you about leaving your sin. In short, Jesus will not jump into sin with you, for Christ, being God, is Holy. You totally ignored the text I quoted from 1 John 2:19, which clearly states that those who leave ( or jump, or fall, or slip ) never really belonged to us ( or Jesus ) and by their going they prove it. So, you can go along with Pete if you'd like, but I know who butters my bread. It ain't me. I don't have the POWER. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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10/14/2008 11:02 pm |
I'm not going along with Peter. We're simply in agreement. If this satisfies your argument, we can't be faithful to God. It's God who's faithful to us and keeps us, not the other way around. In this we can rest that God truly has us. Our salvation is a gift from God. Now, go to bed! My Christ, near and dear Who Leads on BigChurch For Women Only - Christ and the Submission Law God Bless the Believer - Cult or Church When You’re Tempted to Leave the Faith Finding the Road
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11/16/2008 1:13 pm |
Yes, if we jump out of His hand, He will jump with us. The only way to lose your salvation is to disown Christ. Disowning means that you once owned something and then renounced ownership. 2 Timothy 2:12-14 12if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; 13if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself. Jumping out of His hand is the same as being faithless. I have been faithless many times, but the Lord never disown me. I was still His and He cannot disown Himself. I have never once disowned him, but I do know people who have. This is the unforgivable sin, the sin that prevents us from praying for someone any longer. I know you won't agree with me in this, Steve, but thought I would share it with you, anyway. God bless you, Brother. I have missed you.
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11/19/2008 9:12 pm |
Yes, if we jump out of His hand, He will jump with us. The only way to lose your salvation is to disown Christ. Disowning means that you once owned something and then renounced ownership. 2 Timothy 2:12-14 12if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; 13if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself. Jumping out of His hand is the same as being faithless. I have been faithless many times, but the Lord never disown me. I was still His and He cannot disown Himself. I have never once disowned him, but I do know people who have. This is the unforgivable sin, the sin that prevents us from praying for someone any longer. I know you won't agree with me in this, Steve, but thought I would share it with you, anyway. God bless you, Brother. I have missed you. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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11/20/2008 5:30 pm |
Welcome back stranger...... where have you been ?
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