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 | Blogs > godlycook > WHAT IS MAN'S CHIEF END ? > BORN-AGAIN AND REGERENATION |
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No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7 |
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5/31/2008 10:50 am |
Steve, as long as your friend is saved, as they mean the same thing, if your friend is saved then it is a bible study question, it should not be a debate Gods way is my way,...Clay
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 5/31/2008 10:51 am |
Could it be that to be born again is to accept Christ; and regeneration is the process of being sanctified? Just a wild guess, God bless! - Pat -
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5/31/2008 11:01 am |
Linguistically the word "regeneration" actually MEANS rebirth, so I don't see how they could possibly be referring to different things. Blessings. Peter  "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth" 2 Timothy 2 v 15
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5/31/2008 11:46 am |
I agree with Peter. Although a regeneration indicates more a "process" over time, a re-borning would still be on an infant level (milk), were the potentials are "given" to be able of regenerating (meat). But certainly not "REGERENATION"!! 
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5/31/2008 6:48 pm |
Steve, as long as your friend is saved, as they mean the same thing, if your friend is saved then it is a bible study question, it should not be a debate No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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5/31/2008 7:00 pm |
Could it be that to be born again is to accept Christ; and regeneration is the process of being sanctified? Just a wild guess, God bless!  No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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5/31/2008 7:05 pm |
Linguistically the word "regeneration" actually MEANS rebirth, so I don't see how they could possibly be referring to different things. Blessings. Peter No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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5/31/2008 7:07 pm |
I agree with Peter. Although a regeneration indicates more a "process" over time, a re-borning would still be on an infant level (milk), were the potentials are "given" to be able of regenerating (meat). But certainly not "REGERENATION"!! No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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5/31/2008 11:23 pm |
Yes Steve, you have a point there Gods way is my way,...Clay
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6/1/2008 3:26 pm |
BristerBate...........what exactly happens to us, when we are born again ? When the seed is planted, a more interesting question would arise: How and which factors must be in symbiosis for bringing forth this growth successfully? Would it pay to "dig in the earth and hide the talent", and expect that it will bring fruit by its own?
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6/5/2008 11:08 pm |
Funny, the two terms mean the same thing, which is exactly what i said on the other blog! Yet you could not bring yourself to admit it there. Why so fearful Steve? We are what we believe we are. C. S. Lewis
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6/6/2008 3:25 am |
What's our "duty" today! Let's be humble and worthy of His blessing!! ---> + + + ENGAGED AND SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT WITH A RING ??? + + +
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6/6/2008 8:19 am |
Funny, the two terms mean the same thing, which is exactly what i said on the other blog! Yet you could not bring yourself to admit it there. Why so fearful Steve? On my previous post " Reconciling Scripture " I stated that regeneration is necessary before the natural man will believe. You were having a problem ( and still do ) with that fact, as you continued to argue that man is capable of believing without the need of being regenerated ( or born again ) first. When I pointed out the fact that even the O.T. saints had to be regenerated as well, you went on a rant trying to prove I was wrong. At one point you said this: " As for Abraham, show some direct evidence that Abraham was born again. Chapter and verse please. You are engauging in a circular argument. Abraham must have been regenerated because he believed. Since one cannot (according to you) believe without first having been regenerated, the statement that Abraham believed is sufficient to show that he was regenerated. If faith is imposed, it is not faith. One must choose to believe over not believing for it to be faith at all. " Then at another point you said this: " So now I'm supposed to go in search of an idea in the bible that isn't actually stated? Sounds like one that has been inferred through a doctrinal framework that this is itself flawed. I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit was active all through the OT, but you said that the OT saints were "born again". I challenged you to prove it with scripture and you have failed to do that. Some teacher. " Which I had not. And lets not forget this one: " I quote here your post from earlier where you say that Abraham had to be regenerated before believing. Is there a substantive difference between that and "born again"? Perhaps you should read your own posts more closely. You are the guy who loves to tell me that I'm not paying attention, tre ironic, no? " After going back and forth, and after I pointed out your U Turn; you saw that you had made a blunder, and tried to down shift, your point as though you understood all along. When you said this: " So the answer to my question, is there a substantive difference between that (regeneration) and "born again?" is NO. " First you argue that I was wrong about the O.T. saints need for being regenerated ( or born again ), then you must have realized that you screwed up, and that you weren't on the same page ( with me ) and came around to admitting; what I was saying all along. That there is no difference between the way O.T. saints ( were saved ), and the way N.T. saints are saved. Its known as quickening......or making alive, aka regeneration= being born again. You have to follow the " Progressive Mention " I told you about. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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6/6/2008 9:33 pm |
Sorry to burst your bubble Steve but I never said that I believed that it was necessary for anyone to be regenerated BEFORE believing. What I said, and still say is that BELIEVING precedes regeneration or BEING BORN AGAIN. I have never been confused here, but you have apparently suffered massive head trauma if you think I made some sort of big blunder and then tried to cover it up. This concept is central to scriptures like Hebrews chapter 11. verse 6 says 6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Are you saying that all the heroes of faith in Hebrews 11 were regenerated PRIOR to believing? If so please demonstrate this through the only authority that we both accept as valid: SCRIPTURE! Faith is a conscious choice. It is the choosing of believing over not believing. It is well within the capacity of natural man's reason to make this choice. The problem with you Calvinists (Oh just admit it won't you?) is that you need man to be so completely depraved and debilitated through inherited sin that he has no capacity for belief. This is the false premise your doctrine is founded on. If people in OT times were treated by God as if they had the capacity to make choices (and the blessings and cursings that are outlined as reward and punishment indicate that God believes this) how can you say that all of them were "regenerated" in order to make this choice? There is no scriptural evidence that anything like this happened. In fact the scriptures show that man does have the capacity for choice sufficient to accept or reject the gospel. It indicates that by showing us that all men will be held accountable for their deeds. (Not any sin committted by an ancestor) John 3:14-15 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e] John 6:40 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:47 47I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. John 3:18-21 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h] 1.It is blindingly obvious that the difference between those who are condemned and those who are not is BELIEF. 2. It is clear that BELIEF precedes everlasting life, regeneration or being born again. 3. Anyone who is condemned is condemned BECAUSE they don't BELIEVE. 4.Everyone who does evil hates the light, but it does not say everyone does evil. 5. Everyone who lives by the truth "COMES INTO THE LIGHT", it does not say that they were already IN THE LIGHT. How do they come into the light? They believe! Getting the point yet? We are what we believe we are. C. S. Lewis
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6/7/2008 5:44 am |
Jeff........you obviously ignore all of the concepts of grace, and you have yet been able to reconcile scripture. You continue in vain, to try and prove that you ( or anyone else ) as a " natural man " can decide to accept or reject Christ. That means, you believe man without the need of the " call ", or the, " draw ", or " regeneration " is capable of saving himself. Yet you deny that you believe man saves himself. You agree with Pelagius, for it was his position that man is capable of believing, without any need of inward change. From his view, any " assistance " was purely external, and could be resisted. He rejected the idea of the fall of Adam, having any effect on the human race. You've repeatedly made it clear ( perhaps not to yourself ), that this is your position. Read one of your own comments: " Sorry to burst your bubble Steve but I never said that I believed that it was necessary for anyone to be regenerated BEFORE believing. " You're not bursting any bubble of mine.........but you are living in a bubble. The bubble of a make believe superman, a man who can stop God Almighty in His tracks ! No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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6/10/2008 2:31 pm |
You really becoming a bore. If I had the impression that you were hearing anything I was saying, I might feel that continuing this dialogue was worthwhile. I have said a hundred times if if have said it once that I don't believe that man can save himself. The "superman" you refer to is a creature of your own imagination, just as is the "totally depraved" animal that the calvinists have made of man. May God liberate your mind and heart from this prison that you have locked them in. I certainly have done my best to speak reasonably to you. But as long as you are convinced that your scheme of biblical interpretation is the only possible one, you will never know the true depth and breadth of who God is. I challenge you to ask God to show you the depth of truth you are missing. We are what we believe we are. C. S. Lewis
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6/13/2008 9:33 pm |
You really becoming a bore. If I had the impression that you were hearing anything I was saying, I might feel that continuing this dialogue was worthwhile. I have said a hundred times if if have said it once that I don't believe that man can save himself. The "superman" you refer to is a creature of your own imagination, just as is the "totally depraved" animal that the calvinists have made of man. May God liberate your mind and heart from this prison that you have locked them in. I certainly have done my best to speak reasonably to you. But as long as you are convinced that your scheme of biblical interpretation is the only possible one, you will never know the true depth and breadth of who God is. I challenge you to ask God to show you the depth of truth you are missing. You exalt man, in two ways: 1. You present a god, who is weak ( who can only save, when allowed to ). 2. You present a man, who is strong ( who decides when, where, how or if; he will be saved, and if he will remained saved ). I on the other hand exalt God, in two ways: 1. I present the one God who is all powerful ( who saves whoever He pleases, whenever He pleases, wherever He pleases, and if He pleases ), according to His will. 2. I present a man who stands guilty and helpless before God Almighty, and who is totally dependent on God's mercy and Grace, a man who must be changed, inwardly before he'll believe the message and respond. The Gospel message, is not ( nor has it ever been ) a message; of man meeting God halfway ( or reaching upward to embrace God ). The Gospel message, has always been a message; of God reaching downward to save undeserving men, and that by His grace ( undeserved kindness ) alone. Your message is man-made....... my message is Bible-based. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 1 Cor. 2: 7
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6/17/2008 11:33 am |
I notice you don't back any of these assertions up with support from what I have actually said. Very telling. We are what we believe we are. C. S. Lewis
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