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Katididaustralia 66F
93 posts
7/9/2015 7:15 pm

Hi,
I did a bit of research on this for you.
From "Insight On The Scriptures" Book 2

No Tithing for Christians
At no time were first-century Christians commanded to pay tithes.

The primary purpose of the tithing arrangement under the Mosaic Law had been to support Israel's temple and priesthood; consequently the obligation to pay tithes would cease when that Mosaic Law covenant came to an end as fulfilled through Christ's death.
Eph. 2:15 By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, in order to make the two groups in union with himself into one new man and to make peace,
Mat 27:51 And look! the curtain of the sanctuary was torn in two, from top to bottom, and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split

It is true that Levitical priests continued serving at the temple in Jerusalem until it was destroyed in 70C.E., but Christians from and after 33C.E. became part of a new spiritual priesthood that was not supported by tithes.
Rom 6:14 For sin must not be master over you, seeing that you are not under law but under undeserved kindness
Heb 7:12 For since the priesthood is being changed, it becomes necessary to change the Law as well.
1Pet 2:9 But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light

As Christians, they were encouraged to give support to the Christian ministry both by their own ministerial activity and by material contributions. Instead of giving fixed, specified amounts to defray congregational expenses.
2Cor 8:12 For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have
2Cor 9: 7 Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver

They were encouraged to follow the principle.
1Tim 5:17+18 Let the elders who preside in a fine way be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard in speaking and teaching. For the scripture says, “You must not muzzle a bull when it is threshing out the grain

However, the apostle Paul set an example in seeking to avoid binging undue financial burden on the congregation.
Act 18:3 and because he had the same trade, he stayed at their home and worked with them, for they were tentmakers by trade.
1Thes 2:9 Surely you remember, brothers, our labor and toil. We were working night and day, so that we would not put an expensive burden on any one of you, when we preached the good news of God to you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jesus gave this commandment.
Mat 10: 7+8 As you go, preach, saying: ‘The Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.’  Cure the sick, raise up the dead, make lepers clean, expel demons. You received free, give free.
So, if anyone is guilt tripping another into supporting their work it is certainly not a Christian act nor is it teaching according to The Christ. It is certainly not a Christian act to cause hardship to another nor to imply that you will be worse off if you don't follow someone's propaganda.
1Cor 8:11-13 So by your knowledge the man who is weak is being ruined, your brother for whose sake Christ died. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you are sinning against Christ. That is why if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat at all, so that I will not make my brother stumble.

There is only two people we need to follow - Jehovah God and His loving Son, Jesus.
Acts 4:18-20 With that they called them and ordered them not to say anything at all or to teach on the basis of the name of Jesus. But in reply Peter and John said to them: “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, judge for yourselves. But as for us, we cannot stop speaking about the things we have seen and heard

In light of what you've said above, it may well be a good case for you to consider your 'spiritual need'.
Mat 5:3 “Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the Kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

Personally, I would encourage you to learn the Truth of the Scriptures by asking for a free Bible study with one of Jehovah's Witnesses. There is no obligation but you will find all the answers to your questions and so much more.
You could check out your local Kingdom Hall or go onto JW. org and click the link there.

I hope this helps Dearheart.
It is obviously causing you great concern, as it should.

Love,
Katidid.


Urban_Hermit 70M
318 posts
7/10/2015 8:19 am

Personally I think that anyone who is born again should tithe, we should want to give. But what is demanded by some? Discerment should also be used. God loves a cheerful giver.

But in so saying, I've had a number of discussions with some who wont tithe. I ask them, what was Jesus' veiw and quote some scriptures.

The pear of great price ... sold all ..... , the rich young ruler Jesus said, "Sell all" The disciples said, "We have left all to follow you." The woman with the two copper coins, "Gave all she had to live on." He didnt say, "See that foolish woman, she's giving to corrupt hypocrites who will kill me!" Jesus commended her instead for doing her part. When we become Christ's slaves we were bought with a price. He owns us, yet we have the free will to choose what we do.

If you were a member of a football club, or any sporting club for that matter, you pay yearly fees, weekly or monthly fees as well and support the club. Is a church in some way less than a sport's club?

Paul talks about giving in 2 Cor 8 and 9.

It's just something to think about.
God bless.

Judgement Day will be interesting.


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
7/14/2015 3:56 am

    Quoting  :


I do agree quite a lot to what SapphireBleue writers above.

And besides that I think we are getting too obsessed with the 10 %. "Now I have given my tithe so I have done what is expected of me. And look at THEM. They NEVER give tithe..."
Jesus said to the Pharisees and scribes, they spend time on sorting out how to give tithe of everything but had forgotten the most important.

A friend of mine use to say it's not a question of how much of your money God is going to have, but a question of how much of His money you are to use.
I don't tithe. Meaning I don't look for how much I give away. Maybe more and maybe less than tithe.
I give when I see the need. Might be money, things or time/help. And sometimes - but not often - I buy some new stuff and give it away.
I'm not a Saint. Just a Christian who do what he thinks he is asked to do.

And if I have to pay for a membership of a Church, then I will do that too.

Blessings


Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


Urban_Hermit 70M
318 posts
7/14/2015 4:11 am

    Quoting  :

Personally I think tithing is the pastor's & staffs wages. Then the other things we do, serving, cooking, cleaning, church grounds etc are offerings. Quite often offerings are neglected because many think they only have to tithe. It's great to see that you are involved in serving etc also.

Judgement Day will be interesting.


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
7/14/2015 6:37 am

    Quoting Urban_Hermit:
    Personally I think tithing is the pastor's & staffs wages. Then the other things we do, serving, cooking, cleaning, church grounds etc are offerings. Quite often offerings are neglected because many think they only have to tithe. It's great to see that you are involved in serving etc also.

What do you make a year in income in e.g America (average income)?
50.000 - 60.000 US?

With a congregation of e.g 150 people, that will make something like 750.000 - 900.000 US ... depending on the tax...
So a VERY high salary for a pastor and his staff - or quite a lot of people employed...

And a reason for pastors to be VERY interested in getting tithe...
I think pastors should be well paid. Just as the staff of the church. But there should be a wage agreement, so the entire tithe is not just salary for the pastor and his staff.
- And by the way: To whom do the pastors and the staffs give tithe?

I don't think the other things we do are offerings.
All of it should be from out of our hearts, and not only from out of an obligation.
Fulfilling an obligation, and being able to do that always leads to pride...

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"


Urban_Hermit 70M
318 posts
7/14/2015 7:17 am

    Quoting Sojourner06:

    What do you make a year in income in e.g America (average income)?
    50.000 - 60.000 US?

    With a congregation of e.g 150 people, that will make something like 750.000 - 900.000 US ... depending on the tax...
    So a VERY high salary for a pastor and his staff - or quite a lot of people employed...

    And a reason for pastors to be VERY interested in getting tithe...
    I think pastors should be well paid. Just as the staff of the church. But there should be a wage agreement, so the entire tithe is not just salary for the pastor and his staff.
    - And by the way: To whom do the pastors and the staffs give tithe?

    I don't think the other things we do are offerings.
    All of it should be from out of our hearts, and not only from out of an obligation.
    Fulfilling an obligation, and being able to do that always leads to pride...

    Blessings


    Mogens
My understanding of the principle is that the tithe - 10% is paid for wages, then if everyone tithed, for every 10 people they should be able to support one pastor. Problem is not all tithe, not all follow this principle either.

Could you imagine the massive works that could be done if this was actually followed. But sadly the labourers are few .......

I agree with you on the wage agreement, this makes sense, and in some churches it's implimented. Hopefully a good part of the excess funds would go to missions, missionaries etc but I've no idea where it all goes really.

I also agree it should be from our hearts and not from obligation. This should be normal.

God bless

Judgement Day will be interesting.


Sojourner06 60M
1768 posts
7/14/2015 4:36 pm

    Quoting Urban_Hermit:
    My understanding of the principle is that the tithe - 10% is paid for wages, then if everyone tithed, for every 10 people they should be able to support one pastor. Problem is not all tithe, not all follow this principle either.

    Could you imagine the massive works that could be done if this was actually followed. But sadly the labourers are few .......

    I agree with you on the wage agreement, this makes sense, and in some churches it's implimented. Hopefully a good part of the excess funds would go to missions, missionaries etc but I've no idea where it all goes really.

    I also agree it should be from our hearts and not from obligation. This should be normal.

    God bless

I can see we are not much in disagreement.

But to me, we are all workers of the wine yard. Not only the pastors and the staff. And to me it seems too easy to end up thinking "well, now I have given tithe so the pastors and staff have their salary, so let them do the job. Then I will take care of my business".

Secondly I once found some verses in OT (don't remember where) that said if you live too far from the Temple for going there with your tithe, then spend the money from selling your tithe on a big feast for everyone you know. So everyone can take part in the celebration and be happy with you.

I was very surprised when I read it, because I thought the only right thing to do was to take the tithe to the Temple for the priest!

To me it seems like the preaching of tithing brings up greed in a lot of church leaders, and pride to those who find themselves giving enough.

Jesus told us to give the way of not letting the right hand know what the left hand was doing. To do it secretly. So the One who can watch in secret will reward it secretly. (Sermon on the Mountain).

Blessings



Mogens

I Can Explain It To You, But I Can’t Understand It For You

Good News For Christian Man ABP

"REVELATION"